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Transitive and intransitive verbs

от smonkey, 27 июня 2012 г.

Сообщений: 25

Язык: English

smonkey (Показать профиль) 27 июня 2012 г., 3:08:53

I have a few questions on esperanto verbs.

When creating a verb from a noun is there any way to tell if it should be transitive or intransitive?
Can I use igi on transitive verb if I am not sure or will it change the meaning? I was under the impression that one would only use igi or iĝi to change the verb from a transitive to an intransitive and vice versa but the other would not be used because the verb is already transitive/intransitive. I found a few words that seem to use both igi and iĝi.

Example-
manĝi
manĝigi
manĝiĝi

I want to make sure that I am learning the basics correctly. I hope someone understands my question/ confusion.

RiotNrrd (Показать профиль) 27 июня 2012 г., 3:40:58

The forms of the words give no indication as to their transitivity. In MOST cases, it's kind of obvious. But not in all cases.

Thus, you just have to buckle down and memorize the transitivity for every single one.

This aspect of Esperanto is one of my own "if I could just change ONE thing" pet peeves. But, it is what it is.

smonkey (Показать профиль) 27 июня 2012 г., 4:14:14

Too bad, I hoped I was overlooking something simple. I guess it is time to find a good dictionary.
Thanks for your help.

RiotNrrd (Показать профиль) 27 июня 2012 г., 5:31:56

Some people will tell you that it's just "part of the meaning of each verb", and not an extra memory load.

Yeah, well. Maybe not for them.

Transitivity is something English-speaking natives just don't have to deal with in English. So, for us, it's an extra memory load. Part of the meaning, something extra, whatever. It's something, and we have to memorize it for each verb.

hebda999 (Показать профиль) 27 июня 2012 г., 6:19:02

RiotNrrd:Transitivity is something English-speaking natives just don't have to deal with in English. So, for us, it's an extra memory load. Part of the meaning, something extra, whatever. It's something, and we have to memorize it for each verb.
yes, you're right - English has no transivity at all:

I die, I die you
I jump, I jump you

antoniomoya (Показать профиль) 27 июня 2012 г., 6:33:23

RiotNrrd:This aspect of Esperanto is one of my own "if I could just change ONE thing" pet peeves. But, it is what it is.
I totally agree with you. If I also could change this, I plezure do it.

Amike.

hebda999 (Показать профиль) 27 июня 2012 г., 6:58:14

antoniomoya:
RiotNrrd:This aspect of Esperanto is one of my own "if I could just change ONE thing" pet peeves. But, it is what it is.
I totally agree with you. If I also could change this, I plezure do it.

Amike.
I would like to change a lot of things in English, German, Spanish, Chinese..., but I can't. Why is Esperanto going to be any different. Please, do understand. It is not a project, but a living language spoken in its present shape. If you want to make any changes to it, become some great esperanto writer and make the others follow your ideas. No other way is possible now.

tommjames (Показать профиль) 27 июня 2012 г., 8:05:17

smonkey:When creating a verb from a noun is there any way to tell if it should be transitive or intransitive?
There's no foolproof method, aside from looking in the dictionary. But since transitivity (the ability to take a direct object) is no more than a consequence of the verb's meaning, in most cases you should be able to work it out yourself. For example akvo is a noun. The verbal form akvi means to water, as in watering the garden. So there's a verbified noun which should be able to take an object.

Of course you must learn that "akvi" means "to make something wet with water", but since learning what words actually mean is part and parcel of learning any language, that's not something you need to worry about too much.

johmue (Показать профиль) 27 июня 2012 г., 9:18:28

tommjames:
smonkey:When creating a verb from a noun is there any way to tell if it should be transitive or intransitive?
There's no foolproof method, aside from looking in the dictionary. But since transitivity (the ability to take a direct object) is no more than a consequence of the verb's meaning, in most cases you should be able to work it out yourself. For example akvo is a noun. The verbal form akvi means to water, as in watering the garden. So there's a verbified noun which should be able to take an object.

Of course you must learn that "akvi" means "to make something wet with water", but since learning what words actually mean is part and parcel of learning any language, that's not something you need to worry about too much.
Actually this would be "akvumi" rather than "akvi".

tommjames (Показать профиль) 27 июня 2012 г., 9:21:13

Actually this would be "akvumi" rather than "akvi".
It can be either.

PMEG:AKV → akvi = provizi per akvo, verŝi akvon (sur ion)

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