Contribuții/Mesaje: 20
Limbă: English
T0dd (Arată profil) 3 octombrie 2007, 00:38:12
I think you could add "oficiale" to that list. Although there is an informal sense of the word "student," in practice it denotes an official status, and "-isto" carries that meaning as well.
The word "studisto" isn't seen much (if at all), but I don't think it can be called incorrect. It's analogous to the situation with "redaktoro", which is superfluous because "redaktisto" is available.
Afterthought: We also have "prezidento" and "prezidanto", where "prezidanto" denotes the one who is presiding at the moment, but "prezidento" is the president. One could say "prezidisto" instead of "prezidento," but the connection between "prezidi" and "prezidento" is looser than the connection between "studi" and "studento."
mnlg (Arată profil) 3 octombrie 2007, 07:32:03
T0dd:The Reta Vortaro gives a fairly broad definition of "-isto": Personon, kiu profesie, daŭre, prefere aŭ ofte sin okupas pri la afero difinita de la radikoI'm not a lexicographer, but it does seem too broad, and not precise. Would you define "komunistoj" as those who often occupy themselves with "komunoj"?
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Seriously though, even assuming it means that, by using "studisto" you would end up with someone who occupies themselves, preferably or professionally, with studying (not necessarily with knowing, though; only with studying), and is primarily recognized because of that. I'm not sure I can visualize that. I believe you could say "fakulo" or "spertulo" for what you seem to have in mind.
The word "studisto" isn't seen much (if at all), but I don't think it can be called incorrect.It's not a question of being correct (as long as you respect the grammar your words will be correct) but of having an appropriate meaning, adherent to what you are trying to communicate, and for the aforementioned reasons, "studisto" does not seem to carry it, at least for me.
You might want to ask the opinion of the Konsultejo (http://www.akademio-de-esperanto.org/konsultejo/in...).
Betka (Arată profil) 3 octombrie 2007, 17:41:55
So I think that the definition
studisto=one who makes a living by studying
might not be exactly correct.
T0dd (Arată profil) 3 octombrie 2007, 19:02:56
mnlg:Yes, that's another meaning of "-isto" that the ReVo definition misses, making it actually too narrow. In fact, "komunisto" is a false compound, since as you point out, it really makes little sense as "komun-isto". But "komunisto" is international, so it gets used. "Komunismano" would be more accurate, but I don't expect anyone to start using it.T0dd:The Reta Vortaro gives a fairly broad definition of "-isto": Personon, kiu profesie, daŭre, prefere aŭ ofte sin okupas pri la afero difinita de la radikoI'm not a lexicographer, but it does seem too broad, and not precise. Would you define "komunistoj" as those who often occupy themselves with "komunoj"?
Seriously though, even assuming it means that, by using "studisto" you would end up with someone who occupies themselves, preferably or professionally, with studying (not necessarily with knowing, though; only with studying), and is primarily recognized because of that. I'm not sure I can visualize that. I believe you could say "fakulo" or "spertulo" for what you seem to have in mind.Students and experts both study. What is distinctive about experts is not that they study, but how much they have learned. What is distinctive about students is that they are officially committed to studying.
I mean "semantically correct." That is, I think "studisto" does in fact convey the meaning of a person whose role in life is (at the time of utterance) to be involved in studying.The word "studisto" isn't seen much (if at all), but I don't think it can be called incorrect.It's not a question of being correct (as long as you respect the grammar your words will be correct) but of having an appropriate meaning, adherent to what you are trying to communicate, and for the aforementioned reasons, "studisto" does not seem to carry it, at least for me.
mnlg (Arată profil) 3 octombrie 2007, 21:13:51
T0dd:[...]that's another meaning of "-isto" that the ReVo definition misses, making it actually too narrow.I would just say that it is not reliable.
I am reaching my limits in my knowledge of the language, but at the risk of sounding too conservative, I would discard all usages of -ist- that do not point to a profession or a recognized, methodical, possibly specialized occupation. "studisto", as I already mentioned, makes me visualize a person whose job is entering a room and studying 8 hours straight, then getting out and going home, and that would be it. I'm not saying that these people do not exist, but that they aren't perhaps what most people think about when they talk about studistoj.
I really think you should bring this to the konsultejo. Perhaps it's been discussed in the past and they have a great answer ready.
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erinja (Arată profil) 4 octombrie 2007, 01:05:53
T0dd (Arată profil) 5 octombrie 2007, 01:25:29
But let's see what Konsultejo says...
mnlg (Arată profil) 5 octombrie 2007, 07:48:38
T0dd:I actually think that Erinja's gloss, i.e., someone "seriously involved with what they do" is a good one. And that would certainly include students.My "definition" did include "a recognized, methodical, possibly specialized occupation", which didn't mean to be professional; I was already pointing to the, let's say, "serious hobbyist".
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To sum it up, I would use -ist- to point to someone that can be identified by a profession or a skill (or as you mention, in some cases, membership in a doctrine). If one of my friends likes to take pictures now and then, I wouldn't use fot[ograf]isto to point to him or her. I would say perhaps fot[ograf]emulo. If one of my friends is either a professional carpenter, or very skilled in carpentry, I would then use ĉarpentisto.
Can you acquire a skill in studying, high enough to be identified by others through your ability to study? I guess you can but, again, I'm not sure this is what one might think about when using "studisto".
I'd be glad to know the answer of the Konsultejo, if you'll be so kind to forward it here.
Betka (Arată profil) 9 noiembrie 2007, 21:02:12
It can't believe it has been a month, maybe the konsultejo can't agree either
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BasCostBudde (Arată profil) 10 noiembrie 2007, 21:24:38
![ridulo.gif](/images/smileys/ridulo.gif)