RiotNrrd:
This is one of the few Esperanto idioms. "Krokodiloj" are people who speak a language other than Esperanto during an event where only Esperanto is supposed to be spoken.

"Large mouths, small brains" is, I believe, the intended image. Not really terribly complimentary, although generally meant lightheartedly.

Ah, I see. Interesting. Isn't it a goal of Esperanto to avoid all idiomatic expressions since this is one of the biggest things that makes learning natural languages so hard?

Vestitor:
I'd largely agree with that, but I think it's not simply verbal communication that appears last (halting or limited communication is in evidence throughout learning), but rather the confident ability to build creative sentences. This is also quite difficult when writing in a foreign language, because it is the same problem, just at a different pace which allows more time to compose.

Definitely true.

It's difficult to get to that point where you are just speaking (or writing) without consciously thinking about how to say what you want to say, and understanding what others say without having to translate it in your head.

How wonderful to reach the state where words just flow out like water.

Vestitor:As far as I can tell it is actually listening (and thus understanding) that is the bigger barrier for fluent communication because few people speak in a standardised way. Surely anyone could reply, at whatever level they can manage, if they can understand the person they are talking to?

Yeah, for sure. I understand very little of anything spoken in any language other than English, even if I have some knowledge of that language.

The only way to get over this I think is to immerse yourself in audio, whether it be movies, music, or conversation. Luckily, just about everything I've heard in Esperanto involves people speaking slowly and clearly.

SPX:Ah, I see. Interesting. Isn't it a goal of Esperanto to avoid all idiomatic expressions since this is one of the biggest things that makes learning natural languages so hard?

Yes.

But Esperanto has very, very few compared to other languages. The list of idiomatic words or expressions whose meaning wouldn't be immediately obvious is very short. It wouldn't be hard to come up with a complete list right here in this thread.

Crocodiles are a bit of an in-joke in the Esperanto world. You have songs about crocodiles, etc.

kabei is another word that wouldn't be obvious. It means to be very active in the Esperanto community, then suddenly drop out and disappear. It's named after Kabe, a famous early Esperantist, who did just that.

(loosely translated, you might say it means "to do a Kabe")

Most of these un-obvious words come from the Esperanto movement and have a very specific meaning that it takes a short phrase to explain.

Gufujo is another one ("owl place"). It's sort of a quiet chill-out room at Esperanto youth events, it usually accompanies a dance night. It will be a separate corner or room with dim lighting, candles, snacks, and non-alcoholic drinks (usually a selection of teas), intended for quiet conversation and taking a break from the dancing (or for people not interested in the dancing).

Esperanto poetry etc does have some literary allusions that you might not get unless you knew Esperanto literature. Esperanto also has a list of proverbs that Zamenhof wrote. Occasionally someone will quote half a proverb, with the understanding that you'll know the rest. You'd have to be with quite fluent speakers to run into that, and if you were obviously a beginner, it's unlikely that anyone would quote half a proverb at you.

You would do well to read the text to "La Espero" and familiarize yourself with it. It is the most frequent source of literary allusions that I see, since it is so well-known.

"facila vento", etc. There was a project called "malfacila vento", someone with a bit of experience would understand that to be a play on the "facila vento". Keep in mind that "facila" meant not only easy but also quick in early Esperanto (now it only means easy).

I'm seriously thinking of going to Iceland next year. That gives me about 12 months to hopefully get up to speed to where I can understand what is being said and hold conversations with people.

I learnt my Esperanto from studying Teach Yourself Esperanto and listening to short wave broadcasts from Polish Radio (in the 60's they used to broadcast half an hour a day in Esperanto).

I then jumped in the deep end, so to speak, enrolling for an International Youth Congress which happened to be taking place that year in the UK.

The result, as I recall it: I could understand practically everything that was said, but I could only engage very haltingly in conversation. However I remember that it was a very enjoyable experience, and when I went to my second international Esperanto Congress (6 months later in Germany) I was at the end beginning to be able to hold my own in conversation.

I remember being told stories of very competent linguists, who already spoke several languages, learning their Esperanto on a 12 hour train journey across Europe, and turning up at Congresses and surprising everybody with their active command of the language.

For ordinary mortals, however, I'd say that 2 months' book study and 2 weeks total immersion will get you a long way.

The origin of 'krokodilo' and 'krokodili' in the special sense that Riot explained is a great mystery. Nobody knows how these words got into the language. There is only speculation.

If you get stuck at the UK In Rejkavik, you can always say Ĉu vi permesos al mi krokodili momente. If somebody switches to English with you and you want to carry on the conversation in Esperanto then say Ne krokodilu, mi petas. There are further nuances carried by the words aligatori and kajmani, but you needn't worry about that now.

Vikipedio gives a specific date and place for the origin of the expression Gufujo. It would seem relatively recent (1995). Krokodili goes back a very long way, maybe as far as WWII. Whilst Gufujo seems to be associated with youth culture (as does mojosa). Krokodili is in use by all ages.

EDIt: Vikipedio attributes Krokodilo to a specific person in the 1930's, but the more general opinion, I believe, is that its origin is a mystery.

erinja:
But Esperanto has very, very few compared to other languages. The list of idiomatic words or expressions whose meaning wouldn't be immediately obvious is very short. It wouldn't be hard to come up with a complete list right here in this thread.

Thanks for all the info. Pretty interesting.

As a matter of course, I do believe that for a language with Esperanto's goals, it's important to stay away from idiomatic expressions as much as possible. But I guess a few are inevitable.

erinja:non-alcoholic drinks

Thumbs down.

You would do well to read the text to "La Espero" and familiarize yourself with it. It is the most frequent source of literary allusions that I see, since it is so well-known.

Is it a book or something else?

sudanglo:
For ordinary mortals, however, I'd say that 2 months' book study and 2 weeks total immersion will get you a long way.

I really wish I had a local club, but from what I can tell, there's not one. My only lead came up dry. So it's self-teaching for me.

Right now I'm working my way both through the Kurso de Esperanto and the course in the book "Esperanto: Learning and Using the International Language."

Once that's done, I have an offer from a tutor to go through Gerda Malaperis. And from there, I dunno.

Is there anything you would suggest as supplementary material while I work my way through the courses?

SPX:
Is there anything you would suggest as supplementary material while I work my way through the courses?

For me, the best way to improve one's passive knowledge of any language is to read, and then read some more.

I really enjoyed Julio Baghy's the Verda Koro. It starts off easy and gets more complex as the story progresses (if I remember correctly).
Plus it is such a great story that, in the end, brought a tear to my eye.

SPX, why not try the Esperanto translation of Winnie the Pooh. It's entertaining and the language level is not too difficult. Here's an extract taken at random.

Kaj se iu scias ion pri io, diris Urso al si mem, estas Strigo kiu scias tion, aŭ mia nomo ne estas Winnie-la-Pu - kio ĝi estas - kio pruvas la aferon.

This perfectly captures the charm of the original, as does the following dialogue between Rabbit and Pooh, after Pu has stuck his head into Rabbits hole

Ĉu iu estas hejme?, kriis Pu tre laŭte.Ne! voĉo diris, kaj aldonis Ne necesas tiel laŭte voki; mi aŭdis vin tute bone la unuan fojon.

Kia ĝeno! diris Pu. Ĉu tute neniu estas tie?.

Neniu!

SPX:

erinja:non-alcoholic drinks

Thumbs down.

You would do well to read the text to "La Espero" and familiarize yourself with it. It is the most frequent source of literary allusions that I see, since it is so well-known.

Is it a book or something else?

As I said, a gufujo is a chill-out area. You would expect to find drinking in another area of the event. For example, the Esperanto course held each summer in Slovakia has always had a bar (or at a minimum, a kiosk selling snacks and drinks including beer) on-site.

Esperanto events offer plenty of drinking for those who want it, but also the gufujo for those who aren't interested. It's a good mix of options.

"La Espero" is sort of like Esperanto's national anthem. It's a poem written by Zamenhof, that has also been set to music. Lots of large (and some small) Esperanto events sing La Espero at the opening and/or closing ceremony.

You can listen to it on Youtube (or also with an English translation)