Mensagens: 97
Idioma: English
Gosudar (Mostrar o perfil) 10 de agosto de 2012 18:10:49
Benson's Comprehensive English-Esperanto Dictionary says:
"by, (authorship, doer of any action), de, far (e.g.: a drama by Shakespeare: dramo de [or] far Ŝekspiro [note: "far" avoids confusion w oth senses of "de"])."
The Lernu Vortaro says:
"far
done by, written by [this usage is strongly discouraged, and this entry is for reference only; the preferred way to say "Moby Dick, by Melville" is to say "Moby Dick, de Melville"; "written by me" = "skribata de mi", NOT "skribata far mi"]"
I assume that the Lernu Vortaro is right. But how can I make that assumption?
More generally, how does one know whether any statement by anyone regarding correct Esperanto usage is, indeed, correct or incorrect?
SPX (Mostrar o perfil) 10 de agosto de 2012 18:13:32
sudanglo:I don't know why, but I literally LOLd at this for about 3 straight minutes.
However Will the father wash the small cups comes close to maintaining the noble tradition, with a probability of one in 14 million of ever being encountered in real life.
tommjames (Mostrar o perfil) 10 de agosto de 2012 18:24:49
Gosudar:I assume that the Lernu Vortaro is right. But how can I make that assumption?Yes, Lernu is right here. "Far" is very much nonstandard usage and should be considered evitinda by anyone interested in speaking actual Esperanto.
If your Esperanto is up to it there's more info about far in PMEG, here. In those rare cases where there is some real ambiguity to resolve, use fare de instead.
Chainy (Mostrar o perfil) 10 de agosto de 2012 19:32:09
Gosudar:More generally, how does one know whether any statement by anyone regarding correct Esperanto usage is, indeed, correct or incorrect?Use good sources of information: PMEG, vortaro.net, ReVo, Tekstaro, Kondratjev, Komputeko, Komputada Leksikono
erinja (Mostrar o perfil) 10 de agosto de 2012 21:20:39
evitinda, by the way, means "worthy of avoiding" - things you should avoid.
To be fair, PIV (the largest and most comprehensive Esperanto-Esperanto dictionary, available for free online at vortaro.net; access it with your lernu login info) also does not mark "far" as evitinda (if I remember right, it doesn't specifically say a word is bad, but it uses an icon to direct you to a preferable word)
Wells, whose dictionary is more or less authoritative for English as far as I'm concerned, marks "far" with a frowny face as evitinda.
You'll see "far", occasionally. It's good to know what it's intended to mean but I wouldn't recommend using it.
In general, beginners have a reputation for glomming on to non-standard usages, through their enthusiasm ("I can make my own mark on the language! It's still evolving, and I'm going to use this new form because it's evolving!"), but most people grow out of that habit. Esperanto evolves but more slowly than that.
These forums are a good place to ask if you're unsure of the suitability of a word. You can get some different opinions and make your own decision. Or you can't really go wrong with the Wells dictionary. It's less detailed in the English-Esperanto direction than Benson (since it's bidirectional) but it's extremely well-researched, by a very eminent Esperantist (who is also very well-known in his professional field, which is phonetics).
SPX (Mostrar o perfil) 11 de agosto de 2012 01:31:02
1. How do you say "past" in the context of "for the past two years."
2. Would you use "por" for "for" in the context of waiting FOR something?
3. What is the word for "phone call"? And what is the verb for "call," i.e. to make a phone call?
creedelambard (Mostrar o perfil) 11 de agosto de 2012 02:55:33
SPX:So I'm trying to work on a basic translation and am getting tripped up on a few things. Hence, a few more questions:1. Ek de du jaroj? Dum la pasintaj du jaroj? "Pasinta" might be what you're looking for.
1. How do you say "past" in the context of "for the past two years."
2. Would you use "por" for "for" in the context of waiting FOR something?
3. What is the word for "phone call"? And what is the verb for "call," i.e. to make a phone call?
2. Why not just use "atendi" and the accusative? "Ŝi atendis novaĵon pri sia edzo en Irako" - "She was waiting for news about her husband in Iraq."
3. lernu's sister site with the text of the PIV suggests "telefonaĵo" for "phone call" and "telefoni" for the verb. "Mi telefonas vin morgaŭ." If I read the entries correctly, that is.
Disclaimer: I don't know as much as I think I do and if I'm wrong someone can and will correct me.
Gosudar (Mostrar o perfil) 11 de agosto de 2012 02:55:51
tommjames: If your Esperanto is up to it there's more info about far in PMEG, here.I read the link to PMEG that you gave me and, although my Esperanto was far from "up to it", I think I get the drift of why «far» is evitinda. Dankon.
Gosudar (Mostrar o perfil) 11 de agosto de 2012 03:22:23
Chainy: Use good sources of information.Thank you very much for all those important links to "good sources", none of which, except PMEG, I had ever heard of before. I think that what this comes down to is that all the "good sources of information" about Esperanto are in Esperanto and until my Esperanto is "up to" using those sources I just won't sweat the small stuff.
Evildela (Mostrar o perfil) 11 de agosto de 2012 03:54:50
creedelambard:Never write "ek de" it's "ekde"
1. Ek de du jaroj? Dum la pasintaj du jaroj? "Pasinta" might be what you're looking for.