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Translation question #1

од creedelambard, 08. август 2012.

Поруке: 37

Језик: English

creedelambard (Погледати профил) 08. август 2012. 04.04.40

This snippet from Terry Pratchett came up in another thread:

"My granny says that dying is like falling asleep," Mort said, somewhat hopefully.
I WOULDN'T KNOW. I HAVE DONE NEITHER.

(The second line is spoken by Death, who in the book is represented as speaking in a small caps font, which I don't think you can do in this forum.)

Translating the first line is pretty straightforward:

"Mia avinjo diras, ke morti similas ekdormi," Mort diris, iom esperante. (Or is that "espere"?)

I'm not sure about the "neither" part of the second line, though. Is it better to say "Mi ne faris neniun" or "Mi nek mortis nek dormis"? The first doesn't sound right to me, but that could be my lack of experience with the language. The second is not a direct translation but gives you the sense of what Death actually says in the original. And if so, what's the proper tense to use? "Mi nek dormis" or "Mi estis nek dorminta" or something else?

At this point participles are my weak spot in Esperanto. I took the Advanced test here and got 0 out of 5. (Part of that was misreading the instructions, but still.)

sudanglo (Погледати профил) 08. август 2012. 09.20.46

Mi ne scius. Mi spertis nek la unuan nek la duan.

Espere, or plen-espere or kun iom da espero seem better than esperante.

It seems to me that if you use esperante it creates an expectation of a following 'ke clause (or a direct object).

I suppose you can say morti similas ekdormi. But I get a funny feeling about there being no accusative marker (or preposition) for the 'similas'.

I might prefere morti estas kiel ekdormi.

EldanarLambetur (Погледати профил) 08. август 2012. 10.52.23

For: I WOULDN'T KNOW. I HAVE DONE NEITHER.

How about:

Mi ne scias. Mi faris malambaŭ.

Question:
I notice you used us-modo, Sudanglo. I'm not sure that I see how it fits here, am I missing something? What's the real difference between "I don't know" and "I wouldn't know" in English? Is it short for "I wouldn't know, if you were to ask me"? In which case... maybe the us-modo would fit? Or is this just Englishy?

sudanglo (Погледати профил) 08. август 2012. 11.06.59

I don't think it is an anglismo Eldanar. I'm always read to stand corrected, but I think other languages would also use the conditional here.

Of course there is only a nuance between I wouldn't be able to judge and I am not able to judge.

You could always imagine that there is the thought 'If I had to pass judgement' lurking unspoken.

EldanarLambetur (Погледати профил) 08. август 2012. 11.08.30

Thanks, yeah I was just curious, because I've been tempted to use us-modo in this context a LOT!

sudanglo (Погледати профил) 08. август 2012. 12.30.34

Mi dirus, ke tio ne suprizas min.

creedelambard (Погледати профил) 08. август 2012. 15.18.36

sudanglo:I don't think it is an anglismo Eldanar. I'm always read to stand corrected, but I think other languages would also use the conditional here.

Of course there is only a nuance between I wouldn't be able to judge and I am not able to judge.

You could always imagine that there is the thought 'If I had to pass judgement' lurking unspoken.
One of the few examples I remember from Zamenhof's Ekzemplaro off the top of my head is:

Se mi havus monon, mi estus feliĉa.

If I had money, I would be happy.

That's the sense "I wouldn't know" fits into, in my opinion. "Had I died or slept, I would know; I have done neither, therefore I wouldn't know."

creedelambard (Погледати профил) 08. август 2012. 15.31.42

sudanglo:Mi ne scius. Mi spertis nek la unuan nek la duan.
Jes!! I think sperti might be the word I'm looking for. Mi ne scius. Mi spertis neniun.

sudanglo:Espere, or plen-espere or kun iom da espero seem better than esperante.

It seems to me that if you use esperante it creates an expectation of a following 'ke clause (or a direct object).

I suppose you can say morti similas ekdormi. But I get a funny feeling about there being no accusative marker (or preposition) for the 'similas'.

I might prefere morti estas kiel ekdormi.
How about "morto similas ekdormon"? I see your point about the transitive nature of "simili". What's the proper way to form a gerund in E-o? I was trying to equate "to sleep" the infinitive with "sleeping" the gerund and maybe I shouldn't be.

sudanglo (Погледати профил) 08. август 2012. 16.26.51

In Esperanto infinitives can behave like verbal nouns.

There's an example from the Ekzercaro like Kuŝi kun leono estas danĝere. Which might be rendered as lying down with a lion is dangerous. However it is not treated like a full noun (danĝere not danĝera)

And sometimes the infinitive after certain verbs may seem to occupy an object position - mi volas veni/mi volas tion.

But searching the Tekstaro I couldn't find any hits of the form X-i similas Y-i. With esti instead of simili there were some hits.

Further alternative translations are:

Morti estas kvazaŭ ekdormi. Morti similas al ekdormo. La morto similas al endormiĝo. Morti estas kiel endormiĝi. You pays your money you takes your choice.

Hyperboreus (Погледати профил) 12. август 2012. 03.28.00

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