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Kien vi volas?

de acdibble, 14 de agosto de 2012

Aportes: 21

Idioma: English

acdibble (Mostrar perfil) 14 de agosto de 2012 02:58:13

If two Esperantists were sitting around the house, trying to decide where they should go out, and one asked the other, "Kien vi volas?", would you other Esperantists think it to be an error?

Since "kie" already has the accusative marker, to me, it seems as though, in this context, the assumed verb would be "iri", "veturi", or another similar verb. Could this be a way of "being colloquial" in Esperanto or would it be regarded as erroneous?

The Germans have a similar construction: Wohin willst du?/Wo willst du hin?.

wo (where) + hin (direction away from current position)

And for people who understand German, the second sentence uses hinwollen.

So would "Kien vi volas?" be understood as colloquialism, or am I just biased by my German language tendencies?

oicim (Mostrar perfil) 14 de agosto de 2012 03:08:46

Interesting question. I'd like to know the answer also. I'm sure someone will attack you soon about it.

Evildela (Mostrar perfil) 14 de agosto de 2012 04:49:52

Yes this is correct usage, one of the definitions of voli is as follows:

According to PIV:

3. voli iri = want to go: so kien vi volas, I would understand as "to where you want to go"

Chainy (Mostrar perfil) 14 de agosto de 2012 08:22:43

Evildela:Yes this is correct usage, one of the definitions of voli is as follows:

According to PIV:

3. voli iri = want to go: so kien vi volas, I would understand as "to where you want to go"
I think the justification for such usage is as acdibble described. The accusative makes it clear, so you could also say 'Kien vi emas/deziras', although there are no entries for 'emi iri' or 'deziri iri'.

It seems a little strange that PIV made such a definition of 'vol/i'. But ReVo has it, too, so I suppose it's just to show the possibility of this kind of thing.

hebda999 (Mostrar perfil) 14 de agosto de 2012 08:37:33

In Polish language we say exactly the same:

Kien vi volas? = Gdzie chcesz?

kien = gdzie (dokąd)
vi volas = chcesz

It just means: kien vi volas (iri)? = gdzie chcesz (iść)? = where do you want to (go to)?

So for me (as a Pole) it would be quite comprehensible.

sudanglo (Mostrar perfil) 14 de agosto de 2012 09:48:01

It must surely happen in all languages, when context/situation makes the intended meaning clear, that parts of the sentence may be dropped.

You could be even more economical. If one Esperantist passed another in the street hurrying in the opposite direction he might call out Kien vi? To which the reply might come 'Al la kongesejo. Kaj vi?

darkweasel (Mostrar perfil) 14 de agosto de 2012 13:45:07

caspian.merlin:
I like the way you can say in German 'Ich muss weg' and things like that, without a second verb.
... with English speakers wondering about German speakers saying that they can English (= can speak English). rido.gif

Andaluzo (Mostrar perfil) 14 de agosto de 2012 15:56:27

Tiu estas interesa domando, ankaŭ hispanlingve simila io okazas. ¿sabes (hablar) esperanto? ĉu vi povas (paroli) esperanton?

creedelambard (Mostrar perfil) 14 de agosto de 2012 16:03:53

sudanglo:It must surely happen in all languages, when context/situation makes the intended meaning clear, that parts of the sentence may be dropped.
Like for instance "This sentence no verb." ridego.gif

darkweasel (Mostrar perfil) 14 de agosto de 2012 20:05:46

Andaluzo:Tiu estas interesa domando, ankaŭ hispanlingve simila io okazas. ¿sabes (hablar) esperanto? ĉu vi povas (paroli) esperanton?
Hm, however this seems more equivalent to "do you know Esperanto", which is OK even in English. I am aware that Romance saber/savoir/... are not direct equivalents to "to know", still they do also mean that.

I once read a book written by an American about his experiences when learning German, and he wrote that the first time he heard sie kann Englisch (she can English) he waited desperately for the sentence to finish with an infinitive. rido.gif

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