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Esperanto in schools

stjernerlever-tól, 2012. augusztus 22.

Hozzászólások: 72

Nyelv: English

Hyperboreus (Profil megtekintése) 2012. augusztus 25. 8:11:25

Forigite

hebda999 (Profil megtekintése) 2012. augusztus 25. 10:14:20

Don Harlow: The reason for the complaint is that in English (and some other languages) many words have two meanings, one transitive and one intransitive. If the student learns that "bruli" means "to burn", he will immediately assume that both the quoted sentences should be correct, and there is something wrong with Esperanto because one of them isn't. (If, of course, he learns the real meaning of bruli, i.e. "to become converted to a gaseous substance through oxidation", the problem will be less likely to arise.)

"The very presence of an object"? There is no rule that I know of that insists that an object even has to be present. "Kion vi ŝatas fari en la vespero?" "Mi bruligas." If no object is present, you can't add an -N to it ...

English is very inconsistent about its own use of double-meaning forms. You can say "The wood burns" and "I burn the wood", or "The cats drowned" and "I drowned the cats", but you can't then go and say "The cats died" and "I died the cats" or "The tree falls" and "I fall the tree" (though you can say "I fell the tree" in the present tense -- "fell" is sort of a transitive equivalent for "fall", usable in some situations).

RiotNrrd (Profil megtekintése) 2012. augusztus 25. 16:31:58

darkweasel:there is no transitivity problem, there is a problem in distinguishing meanings that one's native language does not distinguish.
Right. Which I would refer to as a "transitivity problem".

Just because it isn't a problem for you, doesn't mean it isn't a problem for others.

Simply asserting "there is no problem" doesn't actually make it go away.

tommjames (Profil megtekintése) 2012. augusztus 25. 18:22:54

RiotNrrd:Simply asserting "there is no problem" doesn't actually make it go away.
Neither does asserting "there is a problem" make one appear. Aside from the possibility of someone believing the assertion; then there would most definitely be a problem.

Red_Rat_Writer (Profil megtekintése) 2012. augusztus 25. 18:33:53

The point I was trying to get across is that it is not the school who makes decisions like that, it's the community.

You might be able to convince a High School to start offering Esperanto as a second language, but no one might take the class. Or, the parents will get outraged, and say they are wasting tax dollars.

So if there's going to be Esperanto offered in a High School, then you will have to have these things

1: Qualified Esperanto teacher
2: Area school willing to host the class
3: Students willing to take the class (and parents who will let their children take the class)
4: Funding

If there aren't any of those things, then there isn't going to be an Esperanto class.

creedelambard (Profil megtekintése) 2012. augusztus 25. 19:16:14

You also need to have answers to a few questions that are almost certain to be asked:

* What is Esperanto?
* Where can my kid go to speak it with someone?
* What kind of job will it get them?
* Why should they take this course?
* Bill O'Reilly says Esperanto is a socialist language. Are you trying to turn my kid into a communist?(1)
* Who's paying for this?

(1) I have no idea whether Bill O'Reilly, or any other influential figure, thinks Esperanto is a socialist language, but I have seen the accusation on web sites before from non-influential bloggers, so the meme is out there somewhere.

There are probably several dozen other questions that will come up that aren't immediately apparent that will need to be answered to the satisfaction of all concerned before support for such a project would gain acceptance.

And of course depending on the funding source, one more question might have to be answered to the satisfaction of the funders:

* What's in it for us?

Unless the money comes from a charitable foundation where the answer to that question is either not relevant or self-evident, or it's part of the school's curriculum funding, that question needs to be answered before the project gets any money. Unless the program is an after school program run entirely by volunteers after school hours or something similar, in which case it sort of moves out of the realm of "Esperanto in the schools."

I'm not saying something like this is impossible, of course. I'm just saying parents, students and other stakeholders are going to need to know that their kids are getting some value out of the class.

razlem (Profil megtekintése) 2012. augusztus 26. 0:03:12

Red_Rat_Writer:The point I was trying to get across is that it is not the school who makes decisions like that, it's the community.

You might be able to convince a High School to start offering Esperanto as a second language, but no one might take the class. Or, the parents will get outraged, and say they are wasting tax dollars.
You might have more luck at a university. High schools (in the US at least) tend to have inflexible curriculums. Plus it's a more liberal atmosphere; you're more likely to have students who've already heard about it.

orthohawk (Profil megtekintése) 2012. augusztus 26. 5:26:24

razlem:
Red_Rat_Writer:The point I was trying to get across is that it is not the school who makes decisions like that, it's the community.

You might be able to convince a High School to start offering Esperanto as a second language, but no one might take the class. Or, the parents will get outraged, and say they are wasting tax dollars.
You might have more luck at a university. High schools (in the US at least) tend to have inflexible curriculums. Plus it's a more liberal atmosphere; you're more likely to have students who've already heard about it.
I think the only realistic option in High Schools is to have Esperanto Clubs. That way, nobody has to worry about tax dollars, and nobody has to worry about children being forced into something against their parents' wishes, etc.

sudanglo (Profil megtekintése) 2012. augusztus 26. 9:34:15

* What is Esperanto?
* Where can my kid go to speak it with someone?
* What kind of job will it get them?
* Why should they take this course?
* Bill O'Reilly says Esperanto is a socialist language. Are you trying to turn my kid into a communist?(1)
Let's get this in perspective - a simple rewrite will suffice.

* What is Latin?
* Where can my kid go to speak it with someone?
* What kind of job will it get them?
* Why should they take this course?
* Bill O'Reilly says Latin is catholic language. Are you trying to turn my kid into a catholic?

Yet in my younger years, Latin was taught in the schools to the cleverer kids.

Educational authorities may approve the teaching of a subject because it is perceived to be of educational value.

If then Latin. Why not now Esperanto?

sudanglo (Profil megtekintése) 2012. augusztus 26. 9:37:54

So if there's going to be Esperanto offered in a High School, then you will have to have these things:-

1: Qualified Esperanto teacher
The Australians have side-stepped this problem with courses at primary school level, where the teacher learns at the same time as the pupils - or stays just one step ahead.

I haven't the link to hand, but someone no doubt can supply it.

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