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Virtual Immersion

Bemused,2012年9月2日の

メッセージ: 11

言語: English

Bemused (プロフィールを表示) 2012年9月2日 11:09:45

The way in which people learn their native language is by hearing those around them speak and by practicing what they hear.

People do NOT learn their native language by memorising word lists, grammar, etc. So why do we use such inefficient ways to study (notice I said study not learn, because you can study a lot and learn a little) a second language.

Because of the relatively small number of Esperanto speakers in any given location, other than congresses, the physical immersion method is not possible, but why not virtual immersion?
I am thinking of a collection of stories, songs, etc, that starts off easy and gradually progresses in difficulty, that could be stored on a smart phone, and people could sing along, much as they already do with whatever they have recently downloaded in their native language.

I for one would be happy to pay a dollar or so for each track. Multiply this by thousands, (millions ?) of downloads and this would more than compensate someone for the time and effort of recording.

The Lernu app store, where you can learn Esperanto the fun natural way, and some of the proceeds go toward supporting this site.

darkweasel (プロフィールを表示) 2012年9月2日 11:26:10

Bemused:
People do NOT learn their native language by memorising word lists, grammar, etc. So why do we use such inefficient ways to study (notice I said study not learn, because you can study a lot and learn a little) a second language.
because an adult brain is not programmed to learn a language only through immersion.

sudanglo (プロフィールを表示) 2012年9月2日 11:28:18

Quite true.

One does not learn Esperanto so much by copying proficient speakers. One learns Esperanto by inventing, by exploring within a framework of relatively simple rules.

This is one of the joys of learning Esperanto, that it exercises one's creative faculties.

erinja (プロフィールを表示) 2012年9月2日 13:23:48

I think that for adults, immersion makes it take a long time to learn even a simple grammatical rule; it's much easier simply to tell an adult the rule, particularly in the case of Esperanto.

However, I agree that immersion is the best way for an adult to achieve fluency, after having learnt the basics through a more grammatical approach.

lernu's new library will have a wide variety of texts (though not specifically arranged easy to hard) and sounds that you can use to practice. But many of these things are already available online. If you want to buy some music that uses relatively easy grammar, for example, you need only to ask for suggestions, and people will surely give recommendations for where you can purchase (in physical or downloadable form) the music.

Zafur (プロフィールを表示) 2012年9月3日 3:59:50

Well... Immersion doesn't work too well for anyone who's not very young because you don't have fluent speakers pointing at things and exclaiming the name 24/7. You're not capable of just sitting there listening and analysing everything you hear all day every day. As an adult you need to communicate eventually.

Immersion works well for solidifying things and expanding knowledge, but it's up to you to create the foundations.

The idea you have is nice, however. I think there's a comic on this site that uses a similar method?

creedelambard (プロフィールを表示) 2012年9月3日 6:01:15

erinja:lernu's new library will have a wide variety of texts (though not specifically arranged easy to hard) and sounds that you can use to practice.
Bona ideo. Will they at least be graded for difficulty, perhaps on a 1-3 star scale, so that someone just starting out doesn't get frustrated by something better suited for more advanced readers?

erinja (プロフィールを表示) 2012年9月3日 11:37:32

The system hasn't been completed yet, but I believe it will include an indication of difficulty, and also some sort of rating system, where users rate how much they like something (so you can get an idea of which texts are popular)

The library will include both long and short texts, so even if you aren't able to read a long and difficult text, perhaps you can try a short paragraph of it.

darkweasel (プロフィールを表示) 2012年9月3日 12:50:25

Zafur:Well... Immersion doesn't work too well for anyone who's not very young because you don't have fluent speakers pointing at things and exclaiming the name 24/7.
Neither do all children, so this is IMO not the reason.

brodicius (プロフィールを表示) 2012年9月3日 16:19:46

Zafur:Well... Immersion doesn't work too well for anyone who's not very young because you don't have fluent speakers pointing at things and exclaiming the name 24/7. You're not capable of just sitting there listening and analysing everything you hear all day every day. As an adult you need to communicate eventually.

Immersion works well for solidifying things and expanding knowledge, but it's up to you to create the foundations.
...
There's a lovely little game/learning tool thing coming out called SanJiten (for which I may or may not be doing some translation), which provides such a virtual immersion environment. While it would be impractical (and boring) to do this 24/7, it still affords a certain level of immersion not previously available.

It's still in development, and there's an Esperanto pack in the works.

The basic idea is you go around a house/workplace/shopping centre etc. and by looking at a particular item you can see its name and hear how it's pronounced. There are also little tests where you're given the word and have to find the object.

Zafur (プロフィールを表示) 2012年9月3日 16:31:11

darkweasel:
Neither do all children, so this is IMO not the reason.
Elaborate?
brodicius:There's a lovely little game/learning tool thing coming out called SanJiten
D'aw, it looks cute. Thanks for the link. ridego.gif May be useful as I'm studying another language in school also.

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