Rugxdoma:

Chainy:Min daŭre ĝenas, ke tiu ĉi diskuto okazas ĉi tie en la anglalingva forumo.

Mi povas kompreni la kialon, kial ĉi tiu diskuto komenciĝis en la angla forumo, sed rigardante, kiuj efektive partoprenis kaj la tipon de temoj, kiuj estis adresitaj, mi nun volas helpi vin por transformi la fadenon en Esperantan fadenon.

The current forum rules are that Esperanto-language posts in non-Esperanto forums need to be accompanied by a translation into the language of the forum. Posts that don't follow the rule risk being deleted. FYI.

No, we will not be turning this into an Esperanto-language thread. If you want to discuss this topic in Esperanto, the appropriate thing to do is to post your message in the Esperanto-language thread that I created on the same topic, here, and post a link to it from your message.

I can pretty much guarantee to you that the new rules will not involve transforming an existing thread into an esperanto-only thread when it goes off-topic. The more likely scenario is that off-topic threads would be moved into a new thread with an appropriate title, since the new forum software will allow us to move threads.

sudanglo:Esperanto learners are largely adults, they may naturally have interesting questions beyond their written competence in Esperanto.

So are you saying that learners should just post their questions in the Esperanto forum, in Spanish/Russian/Chinese, because Esperanto speakers may want to read this interesting question in a language other than Esperanto?

But I am confused - I thought Esperanto was supposed to be easy. Why can't this learner formulate this question in Esperanto? An interesting question doesn't need to be grammatically complex, does it?

sudanglo:There is something totally pathetic about banning contributions in Esperanto within the English Language Forum by those who can read but not successfully write in English (a common state of affairs - let's be realistic).

Worst of all, it suggests that Esperanto is not fit for purpose - far too difficult for a nov-bakito to understand.

Esperanto is easier than other languages but I don't agree that a beginner can understand it as easily as you seem to be suggesting. Some people don't come to the forums until months into their studies, but some come to the forums within a couple of days of starting, and a couple of days with an hour or so of study each day isn't enough to understand much, in my opinion.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm vastly underestimating the capabilities of our users. This site only has forums in languages other than Esperanto because it's a learning site and we have beginners here, who don't necessarily speak Esperanto. But maybe the lernu team has miscalculated and underestimated the capability of our students to learn. Maybe Esperanto is easier than we thought.

Maybe we made a mistake in offering forums in languages other than Esperanto. If Esperanto is so easy that even a 'novbakito' (a new beginner) can understand the posts without a translation, then we may as well get rid of the national language forums, because they only offer a place for people to be lazy, rather than practicing their Esperanto, which is incredibly easy.

Anyone with a few days of study can compose a very simple question in Esperanto (maybe with bad grammar but understandable). And then since Esperanto is so easy, though they are beginners, passive understanding will be enough to understand the answers. Therefore, discussions in any language other than Esperanto aren't necessary. Do you agree with me? And if not, then why not?

erinja:Mi starigis fadenojn en ambaŭ forumoj, do nun estas loko kie komencantoj povas diskuti tion en lingvo kiun ili komprenas, kaj spertaj Esperantistoj povas diskuti la temon en lingvo kiun *ili* komprenas.

Jes, post mia plendo vi ja starigis Esperantlingvan version de tiu ĉi fadeno. Dankon.

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Yes, after my complaint you have made ​​in Esperanto version of this thread. Thank you.

erinja:Ĉu vi preferus ke komencantoj kiuj ankoraŭ ne parolas esperanton ne havu voĉon en ĉi tiu diskuto, kiu grandparte koncernas ilin, ĉar temas pri 'ilia' forumo en la paĝaro?

Jes, sed estas malfacile ricevi la opiniojn de komencantoj, krom se oni starigas ĉi-temajn fadenojn en ĉiuj nacilingvaj forumoj, ne nur en la anglalingva forumo. Tio estus iom temporaba afero! Kaj rimarkindas, ke komencantoj ŝajne ne tre interesiĝas pri tiu ĉi temo - mi ne vidas iliajn komentojn...

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Yes, but it is difficult to obtain the views of beginners, but if you set this-interest threads in all some forums, not only in the English-speaking forum. That would be a bit time-consuming affair! And notice that beginners do not seem very interested in this subject - I do not see their comments ...

erinja:Mi invitas vin 'voĉdoni kun la piedoj' kaj daŭrigi la konversacion en la Esperanto-forumoj, en la fadeno kiun mi starigis por tiu celo.

Mi jam tion faris. Mi invitas vin partopreni en tiu Esperantlingva diskuto, ĉar viaj respondoj en la anglalingva forumo ŝajne montras ke vi fakte ja havas sufiĉe da tempo.

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I have already done so. I invite you to take part in that Esperanto discussion, because your answers on the internet forum seems to show that you actually do have enough time.

Chainy:

erinja:Mi starigis fadenojn en ambaŭ forumoj, do nun estas loko kie komencantoj povas diskuti tion en lingvo kiun ili komprenas, kaj spertaj Esperantistoj povas diskuti la temon en lingvo kiun *ili* komprenas.

Yes, after my complaint you have made ​​in Esperanto version of this thread. Thank you.

Yes, it was an excellent complaint you made. It is obvious that I was totally wrong in not starting that thread from the beginning, because there is a high level of interest in such a thread, both in the English forum and in the Esperanto forum. I thank you for setting me on the right path.

Chainy:
Yes, but it is difficult to obtain the views of beginners, but if you set this-interest threads in all some forums, not only in the English-speaking forum. That would be a bit time-consuming affair! And notice that beginners do not seem very interested in this subject - I do not see their comments ...

There have been comments in this thread by several users that I would characterize as beginners, or have chosen "basic" as their Esperanto level in their profiles.

I would like to hear the opinions of beginners in other forums, but I don't speak the other languages well enough to guide a discussion. It would be great if someone would start a thread in other national language forums as well.

Chainy:I have already done so. I invite you to take part in that Esperanto discussion, because your answers on the internet forum seems to show that you actually do have enough time.

Yes, it's the weekend and I have a little more time. I don't expect I'll be able to keep up the same level of activity during the week, in any forum. As I mentioned earlier at least twice, I am not actively working on writing new rules. My current Esperanto work has mainly involved coordinating work on the story that Anna Lowenstein is writing for lernu's new course, and it has occupied many hours of my time.

erinja:
I would like to hear the opinions of beginners in other forums, but I don't speak the other languages well enough to guide a discussion. It would be great if someone would start a thread in other national language forums as well.

Done for German: Regeln von lernu!

Message deleted - this is the English forum, so all messages should be accompanied by an English translation

Later edit:
I am sorry. It was not my intention to break the rules. I just mixed up the two foras on the same topic. I intended to post it on the Esperanto forum. I will put it there now.
Ruĝdoma

Rugxdoma:Message deleted - this is the English forum, so all messages should be accompanied by an English translation

Jen mi savis la mesaĝon de Ruĝdoma, ĉar li fakte esprimis interesan opinion (Behold, I have delivered the message of Ruĝdoma, because he actually expressed an interesting opinion):

Ruĝdoma:Estas tre granda diferenco en aktiveco en la angla forumo kaj la aliaj nacilingvaj forumoj. Unu kialo estas la anonco "Laste en la forumo", aperanta sur la ĉefpaĝo. Ĉar ĝi strikte reflektas novajn anoncojn, oni ofte vidas plejparte anglajn fadenojn, dum iuj aliaj lingvoj neniam estas videblaj. (La malmultaj novaj alilingvaj afiŝoj eĉ povus esti faritaj en la nokto, kiam oni dormas.) Tio signifas la angla altiras plu da partoprenantoj kaj kreskas kaj ekestas ankoraŭ pli granda. Ĉu oni povus ŝanĝi la "Laste en la forumo" al montrado de teksto kaj enhavo "En diversaj forumoj" aŭ io simila?

Guglo-traduko:

It is a very large difference in activity in the English forum and the other some forums. One reason is the message "This page was last on the forum", appearing on the front page. Since it is strictly reflect new ads, one often sees mostly English threads, while some other languages ​​is never visible. (The few new alilingvaj posts may even be done in the night, when you are sleeping.) That means the English attracts more of participants and growing and arises even bigger. Do you could change the "Last in the forum" to display text and content "in various forums" or something similar?

Min interesas, kiu fakte forigis la mesaĝon de Ruĝdoma. Ĉu Erinja estas nia sola administranto, aŭ ĉu ŝi havas helpantojn?

Ŝajnas al mi, ke tiu forigo estis iom tro frua, ĉar pasintfoje, kiam Ruĝdoma ricevis averton pri mesaĝo afiŝita nur en Esperanto en tiu ĉi fadeno, li ja fine donis tradukon, do eble necesis nur iom atendi...

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Guglo-traduko: I am interested in, which actually removed the message of Ruĝdoma. Do Erinja is our only administrator, or if she has aids?

It seems to me that this exclusion was a little too early, because pasintfoje when Ruĝdoma received a warning message is submitted only in English in this thread, he had finally given translation, so you may need only a little hope...

Maybe we made a mistake in offering forums in languages other than Esperanto. If Esperanto is so easy that even a 'novbakito' (a new beginner) can understand the posts without a translation, then we may as well get rid of the national language

Not at all Erinja.

As I keep on saying there is a vast gulf between being able to read a languge and having sufficient active command to post a message in that language.

So it is useful to have forums in which a learner can ask about things in his own language.

Oh dear the red pencil again!. I have just noticed that Ruĝdoma has had his message deleted.

Does it occur to no-one that Ruĝdoma being from Finland may NOT be able to provide a translation of his message in English, but maybe his post (I presume in Esperanto) was a valuable contribution to the thread.

If the reply to this point is that he should have used Google Translate, then I must answer that such use lays us open to the charge that even the Esperantists don't believe in Esperanto. Imagine what a malicious journalist could do with this - finding a Forum on an Esperanto learning site littered with machine translations.

(What ever happened to the Fina Venko?)

From a propaganda point of view it would look much more convincing to see discussions carried on in English and Esperanto, with those who can't write in English using Esperanto.

Esperanto versus machine translation is going to be the big battle ground in the near future.

Chainy:
Guglo-traduko: I am interested in, which actually removed the message of Ruĝdoma. Do Erinja is our only administrator, or if she has aids?

(lol at the translation) There are three lernu! team members.