pdenisowski:

Oijos:

erinja:Profanity isn't allowed in the forums; edit your posts accordingly, please.

That's the culture in the USA

Profanity is the "culture" in the USA???

Banning profanity is the culture in the USA.

pdenisowski:

Oijos:That's just my impression and conjecture based on my very small experience (e.g. only few Esperanto songs and total time maybe less than 10 mins.).

So you listen to a few Esperanto songs for less than 10 minutes (3-4 songs, maybe?) and make blanket statements about how suitable or unsuitable Esperanto is as a language for music? Hmmm ...

Prove me wrong. Can you agree, that some languages are inherently less suitable for commercial success music? IMO Esperanto contains too few phonemes (maybe wrong word here). "Estas" is a long, ugly and very often needed word. + the regularity. + the most used radicals are so often needed in the word-making process, that the music gets repetitive. That's why many, many new loanwords are used in Esperanto music. And that means that the music is not understandable even to Esperanto-speakers.

IMO Esperanto is for example more suitable to rap.

pdenisowski:Yes, I have, many times. I also hear music in lots of other Asian languages as well. In fact, XM (Satellite) Radio has an entire channel (144) dedicated to K-POP (Korean Pop Music) that I sometimes listen to even thought my Korean is almost non-existant. The popularity of Gangnam Style shows that hundreds of millions of English speakers will listen to a song (over and over and over and over and over ...) in a language they can't understand at all.

Can you provide a link to popular Chinese song, which contains vocals?

Gangnam Style was/is popular, because it memesised. That happened because it was weird to listen to a song you can not understand for English-speakers, + the musicvideo + luck. It is still an exception, isn't it?

That's weird for me, because I have accustomed through my life that I don't understand any music I hear on the radio.

Oijos:Can you provide a link to popular Chinese song, which contains vocals?

Since you're obviously too busy sharing your opinions on world music to type "chinese popular music" into Google ...

Link

Oijos:

pdenisowski:

Oijos:That's just my impression and conjecture based on my very small experience (e.g. only few Esperanto songs and total time maybe less than 10 mins.).

So you listen to a few Esperanto songs for less than 10 minutes (3-4 songs, maybe?) and make blanket statements about how suitable or unsuitable Esperanto is as a language for music? Hmmm ...

Prove me wrong. Can you agree, that some languages are inherently less suitable for commercial success music? IMO Esperanto contains too few phonemes (maybe wrong word here). "Estas" is a long, ugly and very often needed word. + the regularity. + the most used radicals are so often needed in the word-making process, that the music gets repetitive. That's why many, many new loanwords are used in Esperanto music. And that means that the music is not understandable even to Esperanto-speakers.

IMO Esperanto is for example more suitable to rap.

Wow - you listen to (by your own admission) 10 minutes of Esperanto music, make all kinds of unfounded and unresearched statements regading world music, phonology, etc. and then tell me to "prove you wrong"???

The Intermet has put the world's knowledge (literally) at our fingertips and instead of taking advantage of it to educate ourselves, we seem to prefer using it to proclaim our expertise in fields we know nothing about. Just wow.

Again, sorry if that's harsh, but I remember a time when the burden of proof was on the person making a statement and when opinions needed to be backed up by facts ...

Amike,
Paul

I have to sum up this line of discussion. In regards to the success of K-Pop and C-Pop (Chinese pop music), well, I can tell about the experience of the Philippines this past decade. At first, C-Pop (actually from Taiwan) was triumphant. Chinese dramas on the local free TV channels, Chinese songs on the radio topping the charts, lots of girls screaming for Taiwanese hunks, guys trying to sing at least a few Chinese lines, haha. And we thought it would last for a long time, comparable to the long success of Hispanic (mostly Mexican) soap operas in the 90's.

But only after a few years, Hallyu (the Korean Wave, as mentioned on the first post on this thread) came in and totally erased both phenomenons. First came the dramas and then came K-Pop and Korean food. Some Koreans became part of the local scene and the K-Pop has a lasting popular success that the Taiwanese never ever attained. Such was the success of Korean soft power.

Despite that, one other phenomenon survives: Japanese soft power. Anime came in the 1970's, and its fandom continued to grow through the decades, despite the ban placed by ex-President Marcos. Japanese technology is highly regarded and highly sought (understandably), Nihongo courses are popular, and Japanese food is accessible and available. And I have wondered: during the Second World War, the Japanese invaded our country, mistreated our people, raped our women, looted our wealth, and almost obliterated our historical heritage. But after a few decades, there was this great seachange of attitude towards Japan, that allowed us to welcome back the Japanese without resentment. In my opinion, there is no more excellent demonstration of soft power's success than that of the success of Japanese soft power in the Philippines.

As to the suitability of Esperanto to music, well, I can't answer that. I can only sing (badly), and I can't make music. We'd better ask the musicians. Mister Bertilo?

P.S. Gangnam Style was a big surprise. It wasn't planned at all (that is, it was only made for local consumption, unlike most other K-Pop acts).

pdenisowski:

Oijos:Can you provide a link to popular Chinese song, which contains vocals?

Since you're obviously too busy sharing your opinions on world music to type "chinese popular music" into Google ...

Link

Thanks! I'll definitely research that list. The first song is not working, but hopefully most of them are. Can you say, what Chinese languages are used?

I did search for Chinese music within the last year, but was not that successful. I found only historical descriptions. May be that I didn't use your superlanguage when searching, and that's why I got much poorer results. I don't remember.

pdenisowski:

Oijos:

pdenisowski:

Oijos:That's just my impression and conjecture based on my very small experience (e.g. only few Esperanto songs and total time maybe less than 10 mins.).

So you listen to a few Esperanto songs for less than 10 minutes (3-4 songs, maybe?) and make blanket statements about how suitable or unsuitable Esperanto is as a language for music? Hmmm ...

Prove me wrong. Can you agree, that some languages are inherently less suitable for commercial success music? IMO Esperanto contains too few phonemes (maybe wrong word here). "Estas" is a long, ugly and very often needed word. + the regularity. + the most used radicals are so often needed in the word-making process, that the music gets repetitive. That's why many, many new loanwords are used in Esperanto music. And that means that the music is not understandable even to Esperanto-speakers.

IMO Esperanto is for example more suitable to rap.

Wow - you listen to (by your own admission) 10 minutes of Esperanto music, make all kinds of unfounded and unresearched statements regading world music, phonology, etc. and then tell me to "prove you wrong"???

The Intermet has put the world's knowledge (literally) at our fingertips and instead of taking advantage of it to educate ourselves, we seem to prefer using it to proclaim our expertise in fields we know nothing about. Just wow.

Again, sorry if that's harsh, but I remember a time when the burden of proof was on the person making a statement and when opinions needed to be backed up by facts ...

Amike,
Paul

My proof is that Esperanto music is very unpopular, even among Esperanto-speakers. Is that truth? That is my experience. What is yours? You did not answer my question: Can you agree, that some languages are inherently less suitable for commercial success music?

What is the best music piece you have heard in Esperanto? Anyone can answer. I want to research that also.

I have heard only a few songs in Esperanto, but I have listened them to many times over. So 10 minutes was my approximation for the combined duration of different songs. And that was too low guess. I now remember, that I have also listened to Muzaiko maybe about 1-2 hours in all to date. And Eterne rima in YouTube.

Problem is I can't advertise Esperanto using music now, without embarrassing myself.

Of course most music in any language is bad.

Profanity isn't allowed in the forums, please edit your message. Messages that break the site's rules risk being deleted.

erinja:Profanity isn't allowed in the forums, please edit your message. Messages that break the site's rules risk being deleted.

Sorry. I really forgot that.

By the way, profanity is normal in my culture and daily life.