Bemused:

Fenris_kcf:
What about the Dutch and the English men? Are you able to read Folkspraak?

To answer your question, English is my native language. I followed the link you provided.Then looked up Folkspraak in wikipedia. On first reading I was able to guess a few words from the "Official" Folkspraak, fewer from the various dialects. I was not able to understand the meaning of the passages provided. I know that with practice my understanding would increase. But why bother with a pidgin when a simpler and more widely useful language (Esperanto) already exists.

Here you can find some more example texts.

I don't know if it is more complicated than Esperanto or not, since i didn't learn its grammar. The point is: I was able to read and understand it though i didn't learn anything about it, simply because of the similarity to my mouther-tounge. I couldn't do that with Esperanto texts at first. So even if it had a more complicated grammar than Esperanto: Probably most speakers of Germanic languages could learn it faster than Esperanto. I guess the same holds for Slovio and Slavics or Interlingua and speakers of Romanic languages. But i have doubts, that such language-family combinining auxlangs are a good solution, since i think they would dissolve quickly in the respecting national languages due to the vast similarity and therefore would become obsolete. I guess you would need some institution to norm and spread it via the media to counter this process.

sudanglo:Were the tense errors deliberate? If not, they serve admirably to make your point.

You've got to be kidding, right? Talk about nitpicking! Hebda's level of English is incredibly good, something that I've often admired in the offensive private messages that he's sent me. Why they weren't sent in Esperanto, I don't know.

robbkvasnak:I watch German TV (Deutsche Welle) in which they often interview European politicians speaking English (even though some of them speak better German than English). As a native speaker, I have noticed that the biggest gap in their command of the English language is in pragmatics, the subject of how language is used. By not observing the rules of English pragmatics, the speakers sound either rude or poorly informed. I often just feel embarassed for them. They are making such fools of themselves in front of native speakers and they don't even realize it.

I feel embarrassed for you. By the way, note the spelling of 'embarrassed'.

People that make an effort to learn a foreign language should always be admired as it is an extremely difficult thing to do.

robbkvasnak:I know that my fellow countrymen (and women) tend to be nationalistic - which I do not like. But when they talk about "Euro-English" in disdain, I have to agree with them.

Is this some new form of snobbishness?! Deary me, if Europeans are beginning to use their own form of English, then so what?! Communication is the main thing.

English is not my mother tongue. It was forced on me by the fact that I was born in the US. For the first five years of my life I spoke German, which I still speak fluently today. I dislike English intensely - it is great language to sell a used car in but that is it. English spelling is one of the banes of the language and nitpicking is one of the things that Brits love to do the most. Ever hear of a typo?

robbkvasnak, if there's any nitpicking going on here, it's your unfair criticism of speakers of English as a second language. There's nothing embarrassing at all about foreigners speaking English, even if they do make mistakes. Native speakers can make mistakes, too!

Your complaint about English being 'forced' on you due to the fact that you were born in America sounds rather odd. I mean, get over it! Any young child naturally has to acquire the local language, whatever it might be.

By the way, if you insist on having such a negative opinion about people speaking foreign languages, then don't forget about the hilariously bad attempts some people make at speaking Esperanto!

RiotNrrd:

klnptrs78:I ran into one big group in Europe that indicates that they have a special version of Esperanto and do not go along with the US version.

There is no US version of Esperanto. There are no special versions at all.

There is Esperanto - standardized globally - and there are idoj. Any deviation from standard Esperanto is no longer Esperanto, although certainly the speakers of their own personal ido can call it whatever they want.

Thank you, if I bump into someone speaking Esperanto with me, I'm sure I will not have much of a bias about how they view the language.

erinja:

klnptrs78:I think everyone is making great points. From what I gather there are already some big divides on Esperanto. I ran into one big group in Europe that indicates that they have a special version of Esperanto and do not go along with the US version.

Which group would that be? I have never heard of a "US version" of Esperanto.

I'm sorry, I've been so busy finding complete employment that I do not remember the name of the European institute. I bumped into it surfing. I believe last year, or the year before. One of the top organizers wrote me some fascinating letters in very good English about they concerns. They feel that some are being too liberal with the langauge.

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Euro-English is definitely something that native speakers have taken notice of, even to the level of pop culture. There's a recurring gag on Family Guy about two Europeans who can *almost* speak really good idiomatic English, but they always make some obvious mistake with an idiom or turn of phrase.

I have met a lot of Europeans like that, in grad school. They generally preferred to stick together, many of them were friends mainly with other Europeans and not with Americans. My Italian roommate spoke English with almost a perfect accent, but she still tended to mess up certain things (Shopping at "Traders Joe", for instance; or pronouncing small as zmall). I never thought that they sounded foolish, or respected them any less for it. But I noticed nonetheless.

Chainy:robbkvasnak, if there's any nitpicking going on here, it's your unfair criticism of speakers of English as a second language. There's nothing embarrassing at all about foreigners speaking English, even if they do make mistakes. Native speakers can make mistakes, too!

I think you're missing the point. The issue is that a lot of Western European speakers of English have a rather cocky attitude in regard to their command and level of fluency. It leads them full-on into communication faux-pas and communication is supposed to be the issue right? Hence the support of Esperanto here over English.

I mention the Netherlands again because it's where I live, but I'm sure other people have comparable experiences from elsewhere. One of the worst myths flying around the Netherlands (and propagated through ignorance) is that English is 'easy'. Again I had someone talking to me yesterday in absolutely awful English, yet insisting they were fluent. Then came - again - the tired story of how English is 'really easy' forgetting that over 50% of the television output is in English and that the language permeates the culture. And yet despite that saturation the fluency and mastery isn't there. It's a misguided conclusion, yet so accepted that many higher education courses here are taught in English, despite the lack of facility among many. It's the blind leading the blind.

The issue is that the more this foolish attitude is encouraged, the less people see a need for something like Esperanto. Reassuring people that their English is better than it actually is just bolsters the argument for adopting English as the lingua franca The fact is that the varying perceptions and uses of English between different language groups shades the language with their own parochial nuances and misconstrued meanings. I find it tiresome having to unravel these. I know this sort of thing is pleasing to champions of language evolution like David Crystal, but I find it tedious.

Vestitor, you seem to making a slightly different point, or perhaps a very generous interpretation of robbkvasnak's comments. Either way, you certainly write in a much more eloquent manner.

Chainy:

sudanglo:Were the tense errors deliberate? If not, they serve admirably to make your point.

You've got to be kidding, right? Talk about nitpicking! Hebda's level of English is incredibly good, something that I've often admired in the offensive private messages that he's sent me. Why they weren't sent in Esperanto, I don't know.

Chainy's little digs again. He just can't stop. I am his obsession. If he writes something nice, I might even send him my poster.