Meddelanden: 60
Språk: English
Hyperboreus (Visa profilen) 2 oktober 2012 05:27:09
marcuscf (Visa profilen) 2 oktober 2012 05:57:44
Hyperboreus:So in Esperanto -a denotes an attribute like 的 in Chinese according to your example (wo-de = mi-a). So, "The book you bought yesterday isn't bad" (你昨天买的书不错), where "you bought yesterday" is an attribute to "book" would translate as "Vi aĉetisa libro ne estas malbona."Well, a proper Esperanto sentence is very close to that...
(La) De vi aĉetita libro ne estas malbona.
hebda999 (Visa profilen) 2 oktober 2012 06:49:34
Hyperboreus:I do not know who started the myth that Eo was isolating?I don't say that it is isolating only, it has traits of an isolating language (also isolating = has this trait among others). I write what I have read in Claude Piron's articles - he knows better. If you think otherwise, write your own article and enrich our knowledge. Your example only shows that the Chinese language is more isolating than Esperanto. And that was not the aim of my post.
Esperanto, a western language?
Esperanto: european or asiatic language?
razlem (Visa profilen) 2 oktober 2012 14:22:48
I write what I have read in Claude Piron's articles - he knows better.Claude Piron is completely incorrect in even proposing that Esperanto could be isolating. I could pick apart his entire essay, but I'd rather not fill up another thread with off topic posts.
hebda999 (Visa profilen) 2 oktober 2012 15:46:09
razlem:Please do. Then, perhaps, you'll notice finally that he did not say "Esperanto is the isolating language", but only "it has many traits of such a language which make it more familiar to Asians". This is what I was trying to point out, with minor success as it seems.I write what I have read in Claude Piron's articles - he knows better.Claude Piron is completely incorrect in even proposing that Esperanto could be isolating. I could pick apart his entire essay, but I'd rather not fill up another thread with off topic posts.
tommjames (Visa profilen) 2 oktober 2012 16:35:12
John Well's Lingvistikaj Apekstoj de Esperanto contains the following passage (translated to English):
Wells:The enthusiasts of the nineteenth century saw the three language-groups (isolating, agglutinative, inflectional) as mutually exclusive: every language must belong to one and only one of the three types. But the facts do not support that idea. We can now see that one language can, to some degree, belong to all three groups. Isolation, agglutination, flectionality are not absolutes but rather exist on a gradient. For example English appears sometimes isolating (he will write), sometimes agglutinative (un-end-ing-ly), sometimes inflectional (took/take).I personally find the above a better explanation than Piron's "one must consider Esperanto basically non-agglutinative" and "on the intrinsic plane this has yielded the conclusion that Esperanto is basically an isolating language."
Even in Esperanto, an extremely agglutinative language, there are some elements characteristic of isolating languages; specifically, the standalone (single-morpheme) words used in analytic constructions. Those are the pronouns, the primitive adverbs (apenaŭ, ja, ĵus, tre etc), the prepositions, conjunctions, numerals and others - words consisting of a single morpheme.
eitanulo (Visa profilen) 2 oktober 2012 16:46:20
What could possibly be european about the esperanto grammer..?
Huh lets see here~
Eh!! For starters, it uses the correletives as relitives, which is a typical european method.. It uses the verb "est(i) awful alot just like in English, and even if Zamenhof did give a little freedom in speech, in reality the word ordering is greatly influanced by european languages..
So the so called "INTERNACIA LINGVO" just isn't that.
RiotNrrd (Visa profilen) 2 oktober 2012 17:39:15
eitanulo:So the so called "INTERNACIA LINGVO" just isn't that.Why can't an international language be European-based? The "internationalness" of the language follows from its use, not from its composition.
razlem (Visa profilen) 2 oktober 2012 17:47:21
hebda999:Please do. Then, perhaps, you'll notice finally that he did not say "Esperanto is the isolating language", but only "it has many traits of such a language which make it more familiar to Asians". This is what I was trying to point out, with minor success as it seems.But every language has isolating features. English is more isolating than Esperanto. So it must be easier for the Chinese to learn English than Esperanto, according to Piron's logic.
Hyperboreus (Visa profilen) 2 oktober 2012 20:53:12