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Translation Help Needed ASAP!

de SPX, 19 octobre 2012

Messages : 18

Langue: English

sudanglo (Voir le profil) 21 octobre 2012 10:29:49

Yes, adding parts of speeech finaĵoj to roots that can exist without a grammatical ending is commonplace in Esperanto and the finaĵo may even be be in the same grammatical category as the root.

In the latter case the change in meaning may be subtle.

Surely there is a difference between iame bona hotelo and iam bona hotelo.

In the first case, I'd say that implication is that it is still a hotel, but not so good now as it was once.

In the second case, maybe it is now a block of flats that was once a good hotel.

So Jen hotel, almenaŭ iam seems more concrete, more definite, more defined - this is a place that was once a hotel. Jen hotelo, almenaŭ iame seems to be more qualified - more like this is a place that was once a proper hotel, now acting as a hotel but perhaps not quite so definitely a hotel now.

The process of checking-in is a sort of registriĝo. The past is la pasinteco.

'Many blocks down, a few more to go' requires a knowledge of the anatomy of American cities. Perhaps it requires some explicit translation for an international audience.

Multajn stratkuciĝojn/domblokojn for, kaj tiam ankoraŭ kelkajn.

erinja (Voir le profil) 21 octobre 2012 12:46:35

tommjames:By the way PIV has the following Zamenhofian quotes for "tiele": kredu al mi, tiele estas pli bone! Z; li direktis konsternitan rigardon al la tero k longe staris tiele Z
Every case in which I've seen a construction like that, I've felt that you'd accomplish exactly th same meaning without the unnecessary repetitive -e.

"kaj longe staris tiel" and "tiel estas pli bone" are perfectly good grammatically, and have the same meaning as the versions with tiele.

When would you use "hodiaŭe", that the meaning would differ from "hodiaŭ"?

I don't see a difference between an "iame bona hotelo" and an "iam bona hotelo".

If something is no longer a hotel, it's not the "bona" part that should be described by "iam", it's the "hotelo". In that case I'd call it an "iama bona hotelo" (as an adjective, "iama" is describing "hotelo")

tommjames (Voir le profil) 21 octobre 2012 13:22:07

erinja:When would you use "hodiaŭe", that the meaning would differ from "hodiaŭ"?
I've seen it used to mean "nowadays". Of course we can say "nuntempe" for that, but I don't see "hodiaŭe" as wrong. It would be like how in English we can say "today you will never see that kind of outdated usage".

I suppose in the case of adverbal correlatives the change in meaning imparted by the extra -e may be too subtle to be useful, in many cases. But in principle I don't see a problem with it, so long as it's not overused.

sudanglo (Voir le profil) 21 octobre 2012 18:37:02

I am not sure that you have addressed my point, Erinja.

The issue is not how to describe it if it is no longer a hotel. But how to describe it if it is still a hotel, but not having the quality that it formerly possessed.

Because adverbs are use to qualify adjectives (among other uses), then by flagging the role of iam explicitly by marking it as an adverb you clearly link it to the ensuing adjective, bona, not to the subsequent noun qualified by bona.

The scope of iam (unmarked) seems to me to be potentially greater. Mainly it functions as a temporal adjunct meaning je iu nedifinita tempo.

Iam bona hotelo en granda urbo ne kostis tiom ke vi hezitus tranokti tie - the iam goes beyond bona and hotelo to refer to a whole situation.

Obviously when the noun in question does not refer to something that can change its existential category/role over time, the situation is somewhat different.

I would say la iama internacia lingvo because I obviously don't mean a former language (languages die but they don't cease to be a language) I mean a language that was formerly an international language. In that case I don't need to say iame internacia lingvo (though I could).

Similarly, iam blinda viro is not going to be someone who was a viro and is now not. I don't need to say iame blinda viro.

But hotels can become blocks of flats. So iama hotelo - a former hotel, iame bona hotelo - a hotel that was previously good that now has gone down hill, but still is a hotel.

I also agree with Tom that the usage of hodiaŭe is different to that of hodiaŭ.

SPX (Voir le profil) 21 octobre 2012 19:01:16

J_Marc:Hi SPX. You will find whatever project you are doing this for to be a lot more fun and rewarding if you translate these words yourself.
I agree, but I don't trust myself to do it right. If I'm going to incorporate Esperanto into a project that a lot of people are going to see then I want it to be correct so that I represent the language properly.

J_Marc:I speak as a creative person who has done this kind of thing. Why not use English?
The plot revolves around a girl who receives a note in a strange language. She has to first figure out what language it's in and then follow the instructions in the note. This in turn leads her to another note, and then another, and then another. Eventually she reaches the end of her journey.

So Esperanto is integral to the plot.

It's just a little film for a class I'm taking. But I wanted to come up with an idea that was kind of creative and original.

SPX (Voir le profil) 21 octobre 2012 19:02:26

Glad to see this thread has taken off! Thanks everyone for your help!

sudanglo (Voir le profil) 22 octobre 2012 09:27:18

By the way, Esperanto does have the word 'kreko' (creek). But the definition in NPIV emphasizes the meaning of a small inlet, rather than the American meaning of a small branch off a river.

For the latter you could just say rivereto. However NPIV defines rojo as a narrow and shallow rivereto.

opalo (Voir le profil) 22 octobre 2012 14:51:37

I'll have a go at this too...
Hotelo. Aŭ almenaŭ estis.
Ne endas enskribiĝo. Simple venu al la supron.

Prenu momenton por memori la estintecon. La vidaĵo plaĉas, parenteze.
Dum vi restas, tenu iom da fido.

Preter multe da stratoj, ankoraŭ kelkaj plu.
Se vi emas, turniĝu suden kaj ĝuu promenon apud rivereto urba.

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