Mensagens: 32
Idioma: English
SPX (Mostrar o perfil) 26 de outubro de 2012 22:45:19
Bemused (Mostrar o perfil) 27 de outubro de 2012 08:39:49
erinja:Not exactly an icon, but perhaps this will helpsudanglo:But obviously, it is much easier for many who can read English well enough, to post their contributions in Esperanto rather than English. If an active command of English were that easy to acquire, then one wouldn't need Esperanto.Wow, I wonder if we can get a 'beating a dead horse' icon to use in the new lernu forums.
A good reading command of Esperanto can be acquired in 1-3 months. So what is the problem?
I wonder what an appropriately international symbol of beating a dead horse would be...?
http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu46/RosaBella7...
burungmarah (Mostrar o perfil) 27 de outubro de 2012 10:25:09
SPX:burungmarah, do you have a source for that Rio+20 quote?Right here.
In summary, the document seems to emphasize on neutrality to combat cultural hegemony, but economics and sustainability matters more in this topic.
Just to keep the thread in topic, I'd like to rephrase some of my questions in the opening post: has the spread English as the international language of business come to the point where it'd be economically unsustainable? And is Esperanto the solution?
Come to think of it, asking all this makes me sound more like a futurist (who guesses the future). BTW, what is futurism in Esperanto - estontismo?
SPX (Mostrar o perfil) 27 de outubro de 2012 16:45:51
SPX (Mostrar o perfil) 27 de outubro de 2012 16:51:39
burungmarah:I'm not sure I understand why learning English--or any other language--economically unsustainable. There are plenty of resources for learning English that are either free or very cheap. It's not essential to take an expensive course or have a private tutor. With the self-teaching resources available, combined with the wealth of native speakers with whom one can practice with, books, movies, music, etc., a motivated person could certainly learn English for very little financial investment. This also goes for any other major language, whether Spanish, French, Japanese, Mandarin or Arabic.
Just to keep the thread in topic, I'd like to rephrase some of my questions in the opening post: has the spread English as the international language of business come to the point where it'd be economically unsustainable? And is Esperanto the solution?
sudanglo (Mostrar o perfil) 27 de outubro de 2012 20:51:58
Come to think of it, asking all this makes me sound more like a futurist (who guesses the future). BTW, what is futurism in Esperanto - estontismo?futurologio. Tuto de la esploroj pri la estonta evoluo (scienca, socia ks) de la homaro
chrisim101010 (Mostrar o perfil) 28 de outubro de 2012 04:09:40
sudanglo:http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e177/scorpion207...Come to think of it, asking all this makes me sound more like a futurist (who guesses the future). BTW, what is futurism in Esperanto - estontismo?futurologio. Tuto de la esploroj pri la estonta evoluo (scienca, socia ks) de la homaro
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.yotatech...
http://www.yotatech.com/f5/i-dig-horse-icon-88370/
burungmarah (Mostrar o perfil) 28 de outubro de 2012 05:16:08
SPX:As the international business scene demands advanced, native-level English proficiency from all participants, quality, not quantity or price, is of the essence, which I believe cannot be achieved by means of free or very cheap lessons alone. As for motivation, in practice, unlike the other major languages, the promotion of English in Southeast Asia is characterized by pressure and compulsion, which as a result may produce fewer proficient speakers than hoped. In my country, I often read the news that employers in multinational companies complained that job seekers can't speak good English to land a job, despite all efforts to promote the language among the people.
I'm not sure I understand why learning English--or any other language--economically unsustainable. There are plenty of resources for learning English that are either free or very cheap. It's not essential to take an expensive course or have a private tutor. With the self-teaching resources available, combined with the wealth of native speakers with whom one can practice with, books, movies, music, etc., a motivated person could certainly learn English for very little financial investment. This also goes for any other major language, whether Spanish, French, Japanese, Mandarin or Arabic.
Also, not everyone can teach, let alone teach English as native speakers, they need to be trained, need to be dedicated, coping with questions in grammatical or orthographical irregularities, thus the coming supply glut which will result in a society divided into haves and have-nots.
One of the motivating factors for me to ask this question is this article: Ghana calls an end to tyrannical reign of the Queen's English. I know, actually they're not giving up English; they desire to use pidgin even at the highest levels and if too many countries go Ghana's way English as a lingua franca will definitely be in a state of entropy as the struggle to maintain grammatical integrity worldwide falls through.
Soon after I made this thread, this came about: Indonesian Government Wants Primary Schools To Stop Teaching English, supposedly to "relieve students' burden".
Looks like the entropy has commenced.
chrisim101010 (Mostrar o perfil) 28 de outubro de 2012 06:30:59
It seems that the international organisations are less about leading from the front, and more about leading from the rear. Perhaps we need to focus more on community, business and professional organisations. If we can build the credibility of Esperanto at a communal level, and validate it to the public as a capable language, then international organisations may be more willing to consider it as an international language.
I am talking about more than just trying to get the education system to teach it; I am talking about giving a group a distinct advantage because they use it.
To return to the slightly off topic, topic, (bad form i know), would there be an Esperanto word for the meaning of "Beating a dead horse", perhaps "Ĉevali". "Mortĉevalbati"? perhaps is more accurate, but some may not understand, or they might get offended.
Perhaps I should stop beating this other dead horse.
Rafahz (Mostrar o perfil) 28 de outubro de 2012 13:40:10
I took part at Rio+20 as UEA-representative. That link sent by burungmarah is official. I distributed it to delegates at Rio+20. We also strategically distributed the booklet "Discover Esperanto", in Portuguese and in English.
Why adopting a national language is unsustainable? First, because there is an hegemonical language, and that gives advantage to its native speakers. At Rio+20 many people was discriminated by their language skills. To take part at the headstates convention as a representative of an UN-Major Group, for example, it was necessary to be a fluent English-speaker, and as a result all representatives of MGs was native speakers or non-native speakers who lived abroad for years! A friend of mine was invited to give a speech at a side-event, and when the organizers discovered that he wasn't an English speaker they tried to cut his speech, because they were looking for an English speaker.
At Rio+20 there was a language chaos and I got shocked because of language discrimination there. Also, as an observer at a G77 meeting I remarked the difference of English level between diplomats of poorest countries and richer ones.
Also most speakers at side-events were English native speaker. They do monopolize the debate. It's hard for poor people to have access to a foreign language, and I'm talking about fluently use it, not at a pub, but at a formal high level convention.
You can learn Esperanto for free, it's 10 times easier to learn than English, it doen't privilege native speakers and so, can be considered sustainable, as you can read here.