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"Intermediate" English/Esperanto Forum Thought

de RiotNrrd, 25 octombrie 2012

Contribuții/Mesaje: 14

Limbă: English

RiotNrrd (Arată profil) 25 octombrie 2012, 03:37:00

So, some people - and they know who they are - sometimes go on about allowing Esperanto posts in the English language forum (which is currently against the rules). Personally, I think the reasons for that rule are very good ones, but I don't really want to go over that entire argument again. It's already VERY well documented.

But, the idea of a forum for more intermediate students might not be a bad thing. Right now, the English language forum is for *beginners*. But the Esperanto language forums kind of look like they're for advanced students (whether they really are or not - they're not, btw - is a different matter). There's no middle ground.

Maybe there should be.

Why not create a forum in which both English AND Esperanto posts are allowed? Same rules as every other forum has, except that instead of being limited to just the native language of the forum (in this idea, that WOULD be English), you can also post untranslated Esperanto.

I think for usabilities sake, an any-language-goes forum would be a babel. Just to keep it simple, I think it really would need to be limited to just two languages. And I'm suggesting English/Esperanto. If the native German speakers want to argue for a German/Esperanto forum, well, go ahead, but that's not part of *this* suggestion.

So, how about it?

RiotNrrd (Arată profil) 25 octombrie 2012, 03:40:20

*This* forum - the one we're in now - would remain the English-only paradise it aspires so hard to be. I'm talking about the creation of a completely new forum.

bpbatch (Arată profil) 25 octombrie 2012, 05:15:51

Mi pensas, ke vi havas bonegan ideon!

Fenris_kcf (Arată profil) 25 octombrie 2012, 12:13:55

If you ask me, the problem is, that many of the threads in the English-forum don't really belong there, but in one of the Esperanto-forums. E.g. questions about Esperanto should be placed in 'Konsultejo'. Of course you can't expect a beginner to formulate any question in perfect Esperanto, but this whole site is about learning the language, isn't it? Making some mistakes isn't a real problem - in fact it's natural and part of learning a language.

sudanglo (Arată profil) 25 octombrie 2012, 13:29:16

Bravo, Riot.

Bi-lingual forums are obviously desirable.

However rather than labelling such a forum as Intermediate I would suggest just labelling the forum in which strictly only the national language is permitted as Beginner forums.

Then let's see which forums are most used the bi-lingual or the monolingual.

However I do really wonder just how many Lernu.net-anoj are incapable of reading Esperanto.

DarkAnonXXXX (Arată profil) 25 octombrie 2012, 13:47:14

sudanglo:Bravo, Riot.

Bi-lingual forums are obviously desirable.

However rather than labelling such a forum as Intermediate I would suggest just labelling the forum in which strictly only the national language is permitted as Beginner forums.

Then let's see which forums are most used the bi-lingual or the monolingual.

However I do really wonder just how many Lernu.net-anoj are incapable of reading Esperanto.
I think that's a great idea.

RiotNrrd (Arată profil) 26 octombrie 2012, 03:02:05

Again, I believe that beginners should have a place to participate where they don't have to deal with any language but their own. People who are just getting their feet wet, who still have only a fuzzy idea about the grammar, who barely know any words yet... these people are going to run screaming from full posts in Esperanto. They are going to feel annoyed that they can't read them, frustrated that they aren't able to translate them, and will likely feel that this isn't the place for them.

Some people aren't bothered by stuff like that. More power to them. But I would guess that enough are that it matters if we want to be a friendly place for *complete* beginners. And I think we do.

It makes sense to me to have a place that's one step up from where you have to rely on ONLY your native language, but that still allows that crutch for those that still need it. It would be a half-way house, of sorts. Whether you want to label that "intermediate" or label the single-language forums "beginner" makes no never mind to me[1]. Why not label both?

And yes, it would also be a place for those who read English well, but can express themselves better in Esperanto.

-------------------------
[1] As hideous a colloquialism as I've ever heard, but kind of fun to say.

brodicius (Arată profil) 26 octombrie 2012, 05:27:49

RiotNrrd:...Whether you want to label that "intermediate" or label the single-language forums "beginner" makes no never mind to me[1]...

[1] As hideous a colloquialism as I've ever heard, but kind of fun to say.
I had to look this up. Then I had to go to the American Dialect Society's journal archive, which (for some reason) was available at uni. Then I had to scour about 50 pages of explanation to get to the bottom of what the hell this means.

I'm still not sure. I'm putting it in the same bucket of crazy as the acceptability of 'is is'.

Quite off-topic, so anyway: would it work to, instead of having an intermediate level forum for each national language, have only one intermediate level forum, in which one may freely post both in Esperanto as well as any national language?

Totally optional, of course, one could still submit only in Esperanto. I just figure carving up the forum user base further would be deleterious to having a separate intermediate forum in the first place.

sudanglo (Arată profil) 26 octombrie 2012, 12:33:46

I think you have summarised the issue pretty well in your last post, Riot.

Bilingual forums provide a place for two types:

1. Those who are not yet confident of being able to express themselves well in Esperanto

2. Those who can read the national language concerned but are much happier composing their replies in Esperanto, and in the case of English the number of people falling into this category will be substantial.

As a pilot study experiment, one could just append an extra forum to the long list of Nat lang forums just labelling it Bi-lingual English Forum.

Bemused (Arată profil) 26 octombrie 2012, 12:48:49

brodicius:
RiotNrrd:...Whether you want to label that "intermediate" or label the single-language forums "beginner" makes no never mind to me[1]...

[1] As hideous a colloquialism as I've ever heard, but kind of fun to say.
I had to look this up. Then I had to go to the American Dialect Society's journal archive, which (for some reason) was available at uni. Then I had to scour about 50 pages of explanation to get to the bottom of what the hell this means.

I'm still not sure. I'm putting it in the same bucket of crazy as the acceptability of 'is is'.

Quite off-topic, so anyway: would it work to, instead of having an intermediate level forum for each national language, have only one intermediate level forum, in which one may freely post both in Esperanto as well as any national language?

Totally optional, of course, one could still submit only in Esperanto. I just figure carving up the forum user base further would be deleterious to having a separate intermediate forum in the first place.
From context "makes no never mind to me" would suggest "does not matter to me".

As for "is is", never heard of it.

As for your idea of a free for all forum, brilliant, it would perfectly illustrate the problem of numerous non mutually intelligible languages, and the solution, a common second language, e.g. Esperanto. Only question is, how many people would bother with a forum in which they understood very little of what was being posted.

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