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Why the -N on Saluton, Dankon etc.?

de Sand123, 28 de outubro de 2012

Mensagens: 8

Idioma: English

Sand123 (Mostrar o perfil) 28 de outubro de 2012 23:31:33

I know this may seem like a pretty stupid question, so please forgive me.

Why is there an accusative -n on "key phrases" such as Saluton, Dankon, Bonan Tagon etc.?

But not Bonvole?

Thanks

EldanarLambetur (Mostrar o perfil) 28 de outubro de 2012 23:46:58

There is a PMEG section on this, which may help! ridulo.gif

In part, the answer is tradition. But the explanation is that "saluto" and "bona tago" etc. are just noun phrases being used as exclamations. Rather than saying just "saluto!" = "(a) greeting!". You are saying a shortened version of something longer, like "Mi donas al vi saluton!" ~ "I give you a greeting!"

Hyperboreus (Mostrar o perfil) 28 de outubro de 2012 23:53:11

Forigite

Sand123 (Mostrar o perfil) 29 de outubro de 2012 00:02:07

EldanarLambetur:There is a PMEG section on this, which may help! ridulo.gif

In part, the answer is tradition. But the explanation is that "saluto" and "bona tago" etc. are just noun phrases being used as exclamations. Rather than saying just "saluto!" = "(a) greeting!". You are saying a shortened version of something longer, like "Mi donas al vi saluton!" ~ "I give you a greeting!"
Thanks, that's what I had an inclination towards at the beginning, but thanks for clarifying it.

ridulo.gif

robbkvasnak (Mostrar o perfil) 29 de outubro de 2012 01:21:19

I think that "bonan tagon" is short for "mi deziras al vi bonan tagon" - "dankon" - "mi diras dankon [al vi]" - "saluton" - "Mi donas al vi saluton!" etc. At any rate, this is a pretty good grammatical solution - even if it isn't what Z was thinking.

sudanglo (Mostrar o perfil) 29 de outubro de 2012 11:22:37

Whilst it may not be so obvious why Saluton and Dankon should terminate with an 'n', you can see that if you just said bona tago instead of bonan tagon, this might be taken as a comment on the weather, just as bona ideo could be a comment on the brilliance of someone's suggestion.

I suppose the idea that the accusative is there because a longer sentence would require it might go some way to explaining the convention, but I can imagine that it might be difficult to make this theory account for all cases of this usage.

Actually, I think that the force of the accusative in such expressions is that it conveys that in some way the idea is complete, whereas not adding the 'n' may provoke the idea that there is more to say, or that you are just relying on the context to make explicit what you have in mind, but are not stating.

I was trying to analyse what the difference is between belan robon and bela robo, and it seemed to me that the latter seemed less definite, just an observation to be interpreted according to the situation, the former more clearly a compliment directed to the person you are talking to. But, I find it difficult to be definite about this.

Perhaps, all you can say is that 'n' adds some meaning. Shows that the intended meaning is more limited than would be conveyed by a plain nominative.

Multan dankon pro via atento.

Mustelvulpo (Mostrar o perfil) 30 de outubro de 2012 12:27:50

In English, the phrases "Good morning" and "Good evening" standing by themselves are not complete thoughts. The meaning " I wish you a good morning" is implied when they are said to another person. In Esperanto, "Mi deziras al vi bonan matenon" requires the -n ending. "Bona mateno" is just a phrase. The -n completes the thought.

sudanglo (Mostrar o perfil) 30 de outubro de 2012 12:43:51

The -n completes the thought.
Isn't that the point I was making?

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