Meldinger: 60
Språk: English
sudanglo (Å vise profilen) 2012 11 2 20:30:22
And in the last one, change 'farus la eraron' to 'estus tiel indigna' and the obvious interpretation becomes a comment on your current state.
sudanglo (Å vise profilen) 2012 11 2 20:55:42
With cakes which are obviously divisible there is no problem, dividi works.
kundividi kukon suggests that both of you have your hands on the knife to cut the cake. Vi kunlaboras je la tasko distranĉi la kukon.
Hyperboreus (Å vise profilen) 2012 11 2 23:03:13
erinja (Å vise profilen) 2012 11 2 23:30:21
sudanglo:Kundividi still has the notion of dividi in it. How would it work for share an interest'/share a bed or car/share a common ancestor, or all those cases where dispartigo is not applicable?I still use kundividi for things that can't technically be divided - kundividi komputilon, etc.
For sharing an ancestor, that's another meaning of 'share', and I'd say it as "ni havas komunan praulon"
Share a bed - kundormi en lito
In some ways I guess I see this as a variant of the languages that have no word for yes or no. They can't simply say 'yes', so they either repeat the verb, or say "not [verb]".
"Did you go?" "Went". (rather than "Did you go?" "Yes" )
For these 'share' situations where kundividi doesn't work, I think you can use another word in most cases.
Kuniri en aŭto. Kunuzi komputilon. etc.
sudanglo (Å vise profilen) 2012 11 3 12:38:53
Your statement is (and please do correct me if I am wrong): "The -us form never refers to past eventsAlways happy to oblige you, HB.
I am attacking the assertion that -us is time-neutral.
Whereas, for clarity, you have to add antaŭe, as in the FE example, or use some other temporal expression to indicate it doesn't have a present or future meaning, or rely on preceding context, when the meaning is now, or in general, or in the future, in contrast nothing needs to be added to the -us for present, general, and/or future reference.
I'm not sure your Andersen Fable quote is well chosen for counter-argument.
The immediate interpretation of Kiel mi volus tion vidi is, of course, How I should like to see that - not How I should have liked to see that. And the second -us seems to be part of a general proposition (early-rising disturbs sleepers) rather than being specifically linked to the past. But in any case the scene has been set by previous context.
My gripe is that the over-application of the idea that -us is time neutral leads to unclear sentences.
There are sentences that I have seen in print, that are shockingly ambiguous. Only after back-tracking to a previous paragaph and re-reading several times have I been unable to work out the intended meaning.
Bemused (Å vise profilen) 2012 11 3 13:50:09
Plus you can have free accommodation in a cold drafty cell with no furniture but a hard cot and single blanket.
All you have to do is argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Or blather on interminably about topics that have no place in a beginner forum.
is.. past tense
as.. present tense
os.. future tense
us.. tense neutral
Topic closed
tommjames (Å vise profilen) 2012 11 3 15:09:36
Bemused:Or blather on interminably about topics that have no place in a beginner forum.I agree. All learners need to know is that -US does not show any particular time. They can decide for themselves at a later point, having aquired some experience in the language, whether "time-neutral" is a correct descriptor of the US-ending. Though I suspect that most people, or at least those without some kind of a neurosis about the overuse of simple verbs for past conditionals, will find that question of little consequence.
robbkvasnak (Å vise profilen) 2012 11 3 15:16:04
Scalex (Å vise profilen) 2012 11 5 22:42:07
J_Marc:to belittle - bagateligi iun, moki iunI quite like "bagateligi ion/iun" for to belittle. It has the elegance and simplicity that good expression needs - consider it added to my repetoire.
whysea:When it comes to expressing feelings in Esperanto, I take a different route than I do in English. In English I would say "I'm pissed off", but in Esperanto I would say something like mi volas piedbati la muraĉon! or mi disŝiros mian hararon! if mi koleregas didn't seem to cut it for the situation
erinja:My Esperanto when I'm angry or playful doesn't use any special words or forms. But I tend to get creative with my expressions in a way that would (hopefully) be understandable to someone from any cultural background. I don't feel restricted in my expression, really, just because of the relative lack of slang.Part of what I dislike about people's swearing in English (my native language) is not that I find swear words inherently offensive - but people's over-readiness to resort to them stifles their imagination. Part of what makes some of the languages I've studied seem rich and interesting is the metaphors and terms of phrase - the most venom in an insult doesn't come from how much you say the f-word, but the calculated manner in which you express yourself (ekz: "Mi ne pisus sur lin eĉ por estingi fajron" - I wouldn't piss on him even if we was on fire.) I think this is true not just for insults, but for all forms of emotion. As long as it's comprehensible to all parties (ie: Don't use metaphors about sheep, if you're speaking to comeone who comes from a country where there aren't any sheep)
Also, for "kunmetitaĵoj" (combination-words), I think if they hit the mark precisely enough, and could be mutually recognised as filling a necessary gap, then they would be used more often, spread, and would become part of the normal tapestry of expressions which make up our language.
Some kunmetitaĵoj seem too contrived, complex, and unnecessary, but on the other hand, we need to keep in mind the rule that inventing new words from already existing ones is more often than not preferable to borrowing new ones from existing languages.
robbkvasnak:Too much nitpickin' for me in this thread. Uff!Which brings to attention a good word for expressing such sentiments - the verb pedanti - to be pedantic.
Ankaŭ mi priveas maltemiĝojn.
tomasdeaquino (Å vise profilen) 2012 11 6 17:56:20
Bemused:Get your free hair shirts here.Totally agree with you, that's the basic rule I learned six months ago for the conjugation of verbs in Esperanto.
Plus you can have free accommodation in a cold drafty cell with no furniture but a hard cot and single blanket.
All you have to do is argue about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Or blather on interminably about topics that have no place in a beginner forum.
is.. past tense
as.. present tense
os.. future tense
us.. tense neutral
Topic closed
Although as a beginner I find it interesting to read the opinions of others who are experts on such a beautiful language such as Esperanto.
Greetings.