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Attitudes and emotional states in Esperanto

kelle poolt sudanglo, 30. oktoober 2012

Postitused: 60

Keel: English

sudanglo (Näita profiili) 30. oktoober 2012 12:39.44

It seems unfair to citicise Esperanto for a lack of more plebeian forms of expression. The Esperantists are on the whole middle class and well-educated and probably don't use such language in their mother tongues. So in the absence such communicative need there is no evolutionary pressure in that direction on the language to develop more vulgar terms of expression.

However, I find that Esperanto seems to be deficient in its development of a rich vocabulary for the expression of emotional states and attitudes - which the national languages are certainly not short of.

Let me throw out a few examples which I challenge you to translate.

To be upset, to be pissed off, to be fed up, to belittle, to be dismissive of, to be contemptuous, to be outraged by, to be disgusted by, to get wound up by, to be unnerved by, to find something troubling, to be in the wrong, to have little time for, to object to, to be stunned by, to be flabbergasted by.

The expression of emotions and attitudinal states is the very stuff of adult social interaction. Are the deficiencies in language in this area because the Esperantists are too nice, too friendly , too undiscriminating, or because the language just doesn't get used often for emotional argument?

I'd like to see an emotional dictionary of Esperanto at least as comprehensive as, say, our dictionaries of computer terms.

Teapot (Näita profiili) 30. oktoober 2012 15:00.47

tommjames (Näita profiili) 30. oktoober 2012 15:04.18

Teapot:Stephen Fry on the Joys of Swearing
+1

Couldn't agree more with SF there.

sudanglo (Näita profiili) 30. oktoober 2012 22:50.41

But I am not bothered by the absence of forceful swear words that might generously garnish the language of your member of the artisan class or street-person - the emotional intensifiers that were discussed recently in another thread.

I don't think that Esperanto (whatever words from the existing stock one might suggest be adapted for that purpose) can acquire effective emotional intensifiers without some association with the usage of kruduloj, and this group tend not to learn Esperanto.

I am more concerned that words and expressions which are not in themselves taboo words or expressions, but are essential for forceful expression of emotion and attitudes, are not to be found in our bi-lingual dictionaries - or not in satisfactory translation.

Scalex (Näita profiili) 30. oktoober 2012 23:16.15

To be upset - esti ĉagrenita/malfeliĉa
to be pissed off - esti kolera
to be fed up - esti eldrenita/senenergia, enui pri io
to belittle - maltroigi, moki
to be dismissive of - esti ignorema pri
to be contemptuous - malestimi
to be outraged by - koleri pri
to be disgusted by - senti naŭze pri
to get wound up by esti ĝenata per/pri
to find something troubling - opinii ion ĝena/malbona
to be in the wrong - esti malprava
to have little time for - havi malmultan tempon por
to object to - kontraŭi, esti ofendita de
to be stunned by - esti ŝokita
to be flabbergasted by - konsterni pri

Just my personal guesses - I'll confess myself that, when it comes to emotions, my vocabulary is only so well-developed, but your example words wouldn't cause me too many problems conversationally.

I found "can't be bothered to" hard to translate. "Mi ne havas motivon/Mi ne motivas" was what I settled on, with occasionally fajfado pri io being used.

hoketo (Näita profiili) 31. oktoober 2012 7:42.59

Se temas pri lingvo-uzo ankau ekzistas pli vulgaraj esprimoj en Esperanto.
Simple konsultu la libreton "Knedu min sinjorino". Tie vi trovas multon de tio, kion vi opinias, ke mankas en Esperanto.

J_Marc (Näita profiili) 31. oktoober 2012 7:53.45

to be upset - esti ĝenita (upset usually means angry, but can be sad, anxious, etc.)
to be fed up - tro sufiĉas al mi (I have used this very translation, in my book)
to belittle - bagateligi iun, moki iun
to be contemptuous - malestimi
to be outraged by - esti ĝenitega, esti ofendegita
to be disgusted by - naŭzi iun, abomeni
to get wound up by - inciteti iun
to be unnerved by - forkuraĝigi iun
to find something troubling - tio ĝenas min
to be in the wrong - "Via aserto estas malĝusta, sinjoro."
to have little time for - tio enuigas min; tio ne estas pripensinda.
to object to - "Laŭ mi, tio estas riproĉeblinda, sinjoro."
to be stunned by - mirigi; "Nu! 'Mi cervus kaj vi aŭtus nokte', sinjoro!" (The problem is some countries don't have deer.)
to be flabbergasted by - Tiu novaĵo miregas min, sinjoro! Nu, plumo faligus min!"
can't be bothered to - "La tasko mankas inda far-kialo, sinjoro"; malfarinda
The expression of emotions and attitudinal states is the very stuff of adult social interaction.
true, but from what I've seen of other cultures, it may be less universal than one might think.
to have little time for - havi malmultan tempon por
out of context that translation lacks the sense of having little or no regard for something. Mi havas malmultan tempon por kuiri rostaĵon tonight but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want to if I had more time!

Ilmen (Näita profiili) 31. oktoober 2012 12:41.35

It's right that Esperanto seems lacking an easy way to express most attidudes and pure emotions without extra connotation. For instance, I still don't know (yet) how to translate the English "yay!" (happiness attitudinal). ♪

To find a pretty large list of attitudinals and emotionals, you may want to have a look at the set of attitudinals of Lojban, which can be found here:
• Lojban's cmavo (particles) (search for "attitudinal" in the list, they are grouped together).

It would have been useful if Esperanto were having such a large range of attitudinals.

RiotNrrd (Näita profiili) 31. oktoober 2012 15:02.11

Esperanto doesn't lack these terms. It is just very efficient in packing their meanings into a few simple words.

To be upset - pensi pri Ido
to be pissed off - pensi pri Ido
to be fed up - pensi pri Ido
to belittle - pensi pri Ido
to be dismissive of - pensi pri Ido
...

And so on, down the list.

robbkvasnak (Näita profiili) 31. oktoober 2012 16:10.25

Just try some ethnic language rants. I just asked the German forum how to say "Korinthenkacker" and we came up with "pizkakulo" - so somebody who is so constipated from thinking about the "correct" form that their turds come out like little peas.
Some of the rants that were posted in the above forum sound rather stuffy to American ears (like "be dismissive of" ) - donno when I last heard THAT! but, hey, to each his own!

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