Mesaĝoj: 24
Lingvo: English
Hyperboreus (Montri la profilon) 2012-novembro-05 18:54:50
sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2012-novembro-05 23:26:36
Grandma now says that she doesn't want the tomato plants growing next to the porchThis structure, can convey two separate meanings.
1. Grandma no longer wants some particular plants (identified by their location)
2. Grandama doesn't want the plants in some place (maybe they would be OK somewhere else) [compare: I don't want the tree growing too tall]
The first meaning is unproblematic. the translation is 'ne volas la plantojn kreskantajn'
For the second meaning I am tempted by 'ne volas la plantojn kreskantaj'. The other route would be to use the -u form - 'ne volas ke la plantoj kresku'.
The problem with this more classic rendering is that it seems to overemphasize the growing. Grandma in this second meaning presumably doesn't want the plants close to the porch - the growing is incidental.
sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2012-novembro-05 23:31:58
ĉesi is intransitive, so when it takes an object, it must take the -ig- infixYes HB if what follows is an O-vorto.
However the normal translation of He couldn't stop X-ing would be Li ne povis ĉesi X-i.
Hyperboreus (Montri la profilon) 2012-novembro-05 23:49:00
RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2012-novembro-06 02:41:11
sudanglo:Yes. I succumbed to the same temptation.Grandma now says that she doesn't want the tomato plants growing next to the porchThis structure, can convey two separate meanings.
1. Grandma no longer wants some particular plants (identified by their location)
2. Grandama doesn't want the plants in some place (maybe they would be OK somewhere else) [compare: I don't want the tree growing too tall]
The first meaning is unproblematic. the translation is 'ne volas la plantojn kreskantajn'
For the second meaning I am tempted by 'ne volas la plantojn kreskantaj'.
I didn't notice that there was a potential ambiguity in the English sentence.
Case one, where she doesn't want the growing tomato plants which are next to the porch, didn't occur to me. That would certainly require kreskantajn. However, that seems the less likely intended meaning. The more likely intended meaning would seem (to me, at any rate) to be that she didn't want the tomato plants TO BE growing by the porch (but they might be just fine elsewhere). That requires kreskantaj.
jchthys (Montri la profilon) 2012-novembro-06 02:43:56
Hyperboreus:Wow, me too. That's pretty shocking actually. So *Li ĉesis tion is wrong!
I cover my head with ashes. Every day I learn something new.
Li ĉesis fumi.
Li ĉesigis sian fumadon.
Lia fumado ĉesis.
Hyperboreus (Montri la profilon) 2012-novembro-06 02:46:13
sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2012-novembro-06 11:06:59
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2012-novembro-06 11:43:11
Avino ne volas la tomatplantojn, kiuj kreskas apud la verando.
Avino ne volas ke tomatplantoj kresku apud la verando.
zazi (Montri la profilon) 2012-novembro-06 17:52:55
erinja:On the "Grandma" sentence, while it is useful and meaningful in principle to discuss how various participles play out in the translation, if you were actually looking for a clear translation that will leave the meaning clear to everyone, I would avoid participles in this particular case.So if the meaning is supposed to be somewhat ambiguous, then the participle works?
Avino ne volas la tomatplantojn, kiuj kreskas apud la verando.
Avino ne volas ke tomatplantoj kresku apud la verando.
When I was trying to translate the sentence from English I realized that it was ambiguous, but that both parts of the description are equally valid in this case. She doesn't want the plants that are next to the porch because they are growing. If they stopped she'd be fine with them. She is also fine with other tomato plants growing elsewhere, even though they are continuing to grow.
I suppose I could just have said all that to begin with, but at the time it was just a little random thought that popped into my head (in English).
