erinja:I always assumed Zamenhof called himself a "litvo" in the sense of what we call a Litvak in English - that's a loanword from Yiddish. A Litvak is a member of a Jewish ethnic group with its roots in parts of the old Lithuanian empire, so a Litvak is not necessarily a Lithuanian (and their family doesn't necessarily come from anywhere *near* Lithuania's modern borders).

I've seen a few translations that have Zamenhof calling himself a Lithuanian. It's a misleading translation, because he didn't mean Lithuanian, he meant Litvak. He wasn't Lithuanian at all, in terms of the modern state and the modern people.

I am not sure about the term "Litvak" being used outside of a Jewish context but in the modern day, I believe that Jews are the only group today talking about Litvaks. It's still relevant to which Jewish customs someone might follow, and it's also accompanied by a specific dialect of Yiddish, "Litvish". At any rate, since Zamenhof was Jewish, calling himself a Litvak makes perfect sense.

Well, the term Lithuanian had dual meaning in the time of the Great Duchy of Lithuania. Word mean:
1. the ethnic Lithuanian;
2. all inhabitants of Lithuania or otherwise mean citizenship (Jewishs, Ukrainians, Belorussians, Lithuanians).

Zamenhof was not a ethnic Lithuanian, but he was a citizen of Lithuania. So Zamenhof's expression, that he is a Lithuanian did not only (or not necessarily) mean that he is a Litvak, but could also mean that he is a citizen of Lithuania (of the Great Duchy of Lithuania).

So in my opinion, Litvak must be Lithuanian.

PIV gives us the "march" meaning first, and something like the "stroll" meaning second. To avoid the ambiguity, I tend to use PIEDIRI for the generic concept of walking.

Piediri is generally used in situations where other means of getting there than on foot are plausible. (And paŝo post paŝo doesn't mean walk after walk.)

Browsing through the Tekstaro looking at the many instances of marŝi shows that it is as well used for march as for walk. I wouldn't attach too much significance to the order of definitions in PIV. In my pocket Robert the French word 'marcher' starts of with a definition of it as to walk, and then mentions marching.

vincas:Zamenhof was not a ethnic Lithuanian, but he was a citizen of Lithuania. So Zamenhof's expression, that he is a Lithuanian did not only (or not necessarily) mean that he is a Litvak, but could also mean that he is a citizen of Lithuania (of the Great Duchy of Lithuania).

So in my opinion, Litvak must be Lithuanian.

Since the Grand Duchy of Lithuania ended in 1795, more than 60 years before Zamenhof was even *born*, and since he was of the exact population likely to call themselves Litvaks, it's inconceivable to me that he meant "litvak" in any other way than the Jewish meaning. Incidentally, the word is mentioned in the Wikipedia article on "Lithuanian Jews" - that the word "litvak" did mean "Lithuanian" during the Grand Duchy times. But the term died out more or less when the Grand Duchy died out, and from the 1880's or so the term "litvak" was revived with the meaning of "a Lithuanian Jew", in the sense of a Jew with family roots in the territory of the former Grand Duchy. As I said previously, Litvaks have their own culture within Judaism, so there is a reason why you would call yourself this. Litvaks have a particular dialect of Yiddish and a particular pronunciation of Hebrew, particular ways they like to eat the traditional foods, particular customs, etc. People still today identify themselves as Litvaks. It has nothing to do with them believing themselves to be citizens of an empire that died in 1795. It's a Jewish ethnic identification.

I use "marŝi" as my main word for walk, I use piediri only when I want to distinguish between walking and using another means of transportation.

I normally use paŝi only for "to take a step", though I know the definition technically supports a much broader meaning.

It would normally be clear if someone is walking or marching. I doubt most people march to the store, or that a regiment of soldiers walks in a parade. (you could even say something like "soldatmarŝi" if you wanted to. We truly don't talk about marching much in everyday life)

I haven't heard anyone Polish, Russian or Lithuanian use the word "Litvak" in any other sense than "Lithuanian Jew of the old times". Even present day Jews who live in Lithuania are called just that - "Lithuanian Jews".

On the other hand I wouldn't be too surprised to find that someone refers to Lithuania (i.e. the Lithuanian speaking part of Russian empire - present day Lithuania didn't even exist before early twentieth century) as "Litvo" in Esperanto. That could easily happen, because Slavic languages tend to call us that way, for example Polish - Litwa, Russian - Литва, Belarusian - Літва.

Therefore "litvak" would normally never refer to Lithuanian, be it present day or the old good Grand Duchy days. Yet its not too surprising when someone with Slavic background refers to Lithuania as "Litva". I hope this settles your little Lithuanian dispute.

And no, Zamenhof was not a citizen of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, as he was born more than half a century after the duchy ceased to exist. We all were citizens of the Russian empire these days.

EDIT: And by the way I find the word "Lithuania" extremely ugly. You cannot imagine how much pain this causes to all those Lithuanian kids who start to study English and therefore are forced to learn the name of their homeland. I'd rather prefer you call it "Litva", or "Lituva", or even broken pronunciation of "Lietuva". How do you change the English name of your country?

Vilius: How do you change the English name of your country?

I'm used to seeing Esperanto reform proposals here, but English reform is new.

darkweasel:I'm used to seeing Esperanto reform proposals here, but English reform is new.

But seriously. How did Burma do that? Off course, as to my taste "Myanmar" is even uglier than "Burma" and "Lithuania" combined, but still. Do you just start calling your country that new name, and the English speaking countries would automatically catch up with the new name? Or do you apply to some UAA (Universala Asocio de la Angla)?

erinja:I doubt most people march to the store, or that a regiment of soldiers walks in a parade. (you could even say something like "soldatmarŝi" if you wanted to. We truly don't talk about marching much in everyday life)

We also have PARADI for this sort of thing, although sometimes people march when not in parades.

Vilius:

darkweasel:I'm used to seeing Esperanto reform proposals here, but English reform is new.

But seriously. How did Burma do that? Off course, as to my taste "Myanmar" is even uglier than "Burma" and "Lithuania" combined, but still. Do you just start calling your country that new name, and the English speaking countries would automatically catch up with the new name? Or do you apply to some UAA (Universala Asocio de la Angla)?

I think UNO manages a list of member state names in at least its official languages - see United Nations Member States (also click the translations above).

T0dd:

erinja:I doubt most people march to the store, or that a regiment of soldiers walks in a parade. (you could even say something like "soldatmarŝi" if you wanted to. We truly don't talk about marching much in everyday life)

We also have PARADI for this sort of thing, although sometimes people march when not in parades.

promeni