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от sudanglo, 23 декабря 2012 г.

Сообщений: 15

Язык: English

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2012 г., 10:35:07

This question arises from some private correspondence.

Not wishing to take a dogmatic position, I thought I would throw it open to public consideration.

The first issue is whether it is legitimate to say 'rezulti en' and the second issue, assuming that this is permissible, is whether there is some slight difference beween 'rezultigi ion' and 'rezulti en io(n)'

Mia serĉo rezultis en sukceso.

Mia serĉo rezultigis sukceson.

A supplementary question is, which European languages that have a verb corresponding to 'rezulti' can follow it with a preposition corresponding to 'en'.

MikeDee (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2012 г., 12:37:48

sudanglo:A supplementary question is, which European languages that have a verb corresponding to 'rezulti' can follow it with a preposition corresponding to 'en'.
You could write "Meine Suche resultierte im Erfolg." (Mia serĉo rezultis en sukceso.) in german. But we simply write "Meine suche war erfolgreich." (Mia serĉo estis sukcesa.)

tommjames (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2012 г., 12:56:48

My understanding is that 'rezulti' means to be that which results, so El mia serĉo rezultis sukceso (or Mia serĉo rezultigis sukceson), but not Mia serĉo rezultis en sukceso.

BTW in Tekstaro there are only 4 hits for rezulti en and most of those are in Monato. By contrast there are plenty of hits for "rezultigi" and "rezulti el".

scorpjke (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2012 г., 14:11:43

"Rezulti en" doesn't sound right to me. I would say it in a simper way: "mia serĉo sukcesis" or "la rezulto de mia serĉo estis sukceso". "Mia serĉo rezultigis sukceson" makes sense, too, I guess, but I wouldn't use it because it is too complicated.

Also, I guess that "el mia serĉo rezultis sukceso" also sounds fine, but still I vote for the simplest one - "(fine) mia serĉo sukcesis".

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2012 г., 15:07:59

Ah! But the issue is not related to the specific example sentences - or whether they may be more elegantly re-written

I am asking whether in general 'rezultis en' is acceptable and how this differs in emphasis from 'rezultigis'.

Can I conclude that this prepositional use is known to English and German, but is absent from Russian?

By the way, I see that the Tekstaro also gives several examples of 'rezulti je'.

ĉu mamnutrado de beboj rezultas je malpli da adoleska obezeco

li sciis spici la riproĉon tiel, ke ĝi rezultis je lia profito

La kongreso rezultos je 1) aktivigo kaj kunigo de esperantistaro en la tuta ekssovetia teritorio; 2)....

scorpjke (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2012 г., 15:22:56

sudanglo:I am asking whether in general 'rezultis en' is acceptable and how this differs in emphasis from 'rezultigis'.
Then my answers are "no" and "I'm not sure", respectively.

sudanglo:Can I conclude that this prepositional use is known to English and German, but is absent from Russian?
Well, it is indeed absent from Russian, but that is not why I find it strange. There are many other things that exist in both Esperanto and Russian, but I find them very strange, too.[/quote]
sudanglo:By the way, I see that the Tekstaro also gives several examples of 'rezulti je'.

ĉu mamnutrado de beboj rezultas je malpli da adoleska obezeco

li sciis spici la riproĉon tiel, ke ĝi rezultis je lia profito

La kongreso rezultos je 1) aktivigo kaj kunigo de esperantistaro en la tuta ekssovetia teritorio; 2)....
"Je" sounds much better, in my opinion.

Also, it's off topic, but
sudanglo:malpli da adoleska obezeco
Is such usage of "(mal)pli" really considired correct? I mean "malpli multa" or "pli malmulta" instead of "malpli da" would make much more sense. But nobody cares, I guess malgajo.gif

sudanglo (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2012 г., 16:04:04

Kiun vi preferas?

La alveno de la Inter-reto rezultis je tio, ke pli da junaj personoj nun lernas Esperanton.

or

La alveno de la Inter-reto rezultis en tio, ke pli da junaj personoj nun lernas Esperanton.

or

La alveno de la Inter-reto rezultigis tion, ke pli da junaj personoj nun lernas Esperanton.

RiotNrrd (Показать профиль) 23 декабря 2012 г., 16:50:54

The "en" in "rezultis en" seems to me to be the dragging of a preposition into Esperanto from English. "In" does not accurately describe the state, so "en" is the wrong preposition.

Tempodivalse (Показать профиль) 24 декабря 2012 г., 4:36:56

Can I conclude that this prepositional use is known to English and German, but is absent from Russian?
In Russian your eхample sentence could be translated as

мои поиски закончились успехом

with the noun in the instrumental case, which I would approximate in EO with "je". (There is no correct way to use a preposition here -- "в успехе" is just wrong.)

Anyways, I would go with either "rezulti je" or "rezultigi". "En" looks uncomfortably like an anglaĵo. (In general, I tend to prefer "je" instead of "en" wherever "en" would not be taken literally, simply to minimise the risk of confusion. But I suspect that's a minority view.)

antoniomoya (Показать профиль) 24 декабря 2012 г., 7:01:09

sudanglo:Kiun vi preferas?

La alveno de la Inter-reto rezultis je tio, ke pli da junaj personoj nun lernas Esperanton.
Mi preferas tiun (I prefer this way).

Amike.

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