"sudanglo":It is an interesting linguistic question as to why 'degrew' rides on the favourable import of 'grew' but 'malkreski' doesn't profit from the positive value of 'kreski'.

if i'm interpreting this thought correctly, then it may revolve around the purpose of the negative in Newspeak: in the story, the Party didn't want any negative thoughts, as that could potentially lead to negative thought towards Big Brother, and that's crimethink. so the usage of the prefix "un-good" isn't meant to be the negative version of "good", but rather, simply "not good"—the concept of "bad" wouldn't not exist. whereas in Esperanto, it seems a bit more evident that "malbona" has a negative connotation, rather than the opposite connotation to "bona"; one might say "ne bona" vs "malbona", they have slightly different interpretive meanings.
If you look at it more from the English, language-based linguistic view rather than the Orwellian/political linguistic view, then you could say that the wording changes the way people think of the sentence. If you start with 5, and subtract 20, then it sounds like you lost a lot. But if you start at 5, and add -20, then it's the exact same thing, but it sounds less negative—i think I'll start maliciously talking like this now . "Grew" makes the reader think "positive", but "de" maakes them think "less". So they think of both; "it went down but that's ok". Whereas, again, malkreski has less of a positive ring to it.

…i honestly have no clue if that made sense to anyone, or was even true. (coming from someone who barely knows both Esperanto and Newspeak.)

"Grew" makes the reader think "positive", but "de" makes them think "less". So they think of both; "it went down but that's ok". Whereas, again, malkreski has less of a positive ring to it.

But that's precisely the issue. Why does malkreski not get coloured with the positive association of kreski?

Malkreski can be very positive. It depends on the context, doesn't it? If we're talking about the deficit shrinking, then "malkreski" is much more positive than "kreski".

"sudanglo":

"jelvinjs7":
"Grew" makes the reader think "positive", but "de" makes them think "less". So they think of both; "it went down but that's ok". Whereas, again, malkreski has less of a positive ring to it.

But that's precisely the issue. Why does malkreski not get coloured with the positive association of kreski?

Ah, yes. Fair point. To which I say, I have no clue. I guess it's just something of how language has grown to be interpreted in certain different ways by culture; etymologically, 2 words (an English word and an Esperanto word) can mean the exact same thing, but Esperanto has developed a literal and neutral meaning to it "malkreski", without any mood that could be implied, whereas English… doesn't. Not sure why
…I'm being super repetitive aren't I? :/

sudanglo:
Incidentally, it may not be true, but I have heard the story that George Orwell got the idea of Newspeak from Esperanto. Apparently he went to stay with with aunt in France (in order to improve his French) but had to leave in disgust as the aunt was shacked up with another Esperantist and the couple insisted on speaking Esperanto around the house.

See:
http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Kate_Limouzin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eug%C3%A8ne_Lanti

In the 1920s Lanti lived in Paris with Ellen Kate Limouzin, the aunt of George Orwell. Orwell visited the couple and suffered as a non-speaker of Esperanto, and developed a strong dislike for the language. It has been suggested that Orwell included elements of Esperanto in the "Newspeak" language he created in his anti-totalitarian novel, Nineteen Eighty-Four.

sudanglo:Actually it is an old argument in Esperantujo that malmola (for example) doesn't sound hard, because it includes mola (soft).

If it were just a question of familiarity then Newspeak attempts at thought manipulation would become self-defeating. After a while, the replacement of 'bad' with 'ungood' would lose any force of making something sound less bad.

Which sounds more distant? Foraj landoj or malproksimaj landoj? You can't use the familiarity argument here.

It indeed happens. This phenomenon even has a name, euphemistic treadmill.

sudanglo:At the British Congress at Ramsgate in May we will be providing 'Oficialaj Krokodiloj' for those wishing to practise their English. French, Flemish etc ..

Not a bad idea. I remember my first British Congress in 2007. I could follow hardly anything, including a certain person's lecture about conspiracies (OK, maybe that wasn't a great loss).

However I haven't practised much during the last year, and therefore probably forgotten all my E-o and become a beginner again, so I might find use for such people.

OK, as a penance let me see if I can put the above into E-o ..

Ne malbona ideo. Mi memoras mian unuan landan kongreson en 2007. Mi apenaŭ povis kompreni ion ajn -inkluzive de prelego pri konspiroj - nu, eble tio ne estis granda perdo.

Pasintjare, tamen, mi ne ekzercis min pri la lingvo, kaj rekomencantiĝis, do eble tiaj uloj utilos por mi.

Miland:Not a bad idea. I remember my first British Congress in 2007. I could follow hardly anything, including a certain person's lecture about conspiracies (OK, maybe that wasn't a great loss).

What, even with the secretly recorded extracts of conversations from confidential meetings that he was playing out of context or the photo of one of the "MI5 agents" in the committee that he put on screen?!

However I haven't practised much during the last year, and therefore probably forgotten all my E-o and become a beginner again, so I might find use for such people.

I doubt you'd have any problem, Miland. I recall your being able to chat comfortably since forever, so I would bet you'd be fine. And even if not, just walk up to me and Clare and start talking in English. I think the majority of the Brits are grown up enough now to realise that it's obnoxious to compel people to struggle with Esperanto if all parties happen to share the same native language.

sudanglo:Actually it is an old argument in Esperantujo that malmola (for example) doesn't sound hard, because it includes mola (soft).

How cute. I would say that is because the negative of one does not imply the positive of the other. Something can be "neither soft nor hard".

On a related note, saying something is harder than another implies both are hard, while saying one is softer than another implies they're both soft. They are "equipollent" antonyms.

Miland:

sudanglo:At the British Congress at Ramsgate in May we will be providing 'Oficialaj Krokodiloj' for those wishing to practise their English. French, Flemish etc ..

Not a bad idea. I remember my first British Congress in 2007. I could follow hardly anything

Actually the thinking behind this is not to make life easier for beginners or rekomencantoj. Anyway there aren't going to be any lingvo-polico prowling the congress. You are free to talk in any language you choose.

The thinking is rather to widen the appeal of the congress and boost the attendance.

Point 1. is that we know that those learning Esperanto are often language enthusiasts rather than finvenkistoj. Compare the 3000 plus registrations at Lernu with the membership of EAB, or look at the comments in almost any thread in the forums.

Point 2. is that the Congresses are a manifestation of the interest in, and support for, Esperanto. It's bums on seats which has the greatest impact. Few members of the general public seeing in the street a kongresano sporting a conference badge prominently displaying the word Esperanto will stop to quiz said Kongresano on his motivation in attending the Congress. Rather the reaction will be - Oh! Look how many Esperantists there are.

In any case, it seems to me a much neglected aspect of our international congresses that we do not promote them as an opportunity, not only to speak Esperanto, but also to practise other languages with sympathetic conversationalists.

The argument that you can do this any time, any place has little force.

If you are a Frenchman, you can try it out to see how successful you are in stopping people in the street in Ramsgate and getting them to make conversation with you in English. That would be a whole different experience to chatting to an Englishman in the Congress sporting a Krokodilo badge, who has willing volunteered to provide such a service.