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Farĉo

от Simon Pure, 06 февруари 2013

Съобщения: 15

Език: English

Simon Pure (Покажи профила) 06 февруари 2013, 02:37:38

In the picture dictionary (here) there is a photo of what I would call mince here in NZ and ground beef were I in the US. The word given for it is farĉo which the Lernu vortaro and Vortaro.net describe as stuffing (Vortaro: Hakita k spicita viando, legomaĵo aŭ fruktaĵo, kiun oni enmetas en la internon de bakota besto).

If not farĉo for mince then what? haketaĵo, haketa viando / haketviando, mueliaĵo, mueliviando?

RiotNrrd (Покажи профила) 06 февруари 2013, 02:42:59

The vortaro gives "hamburgero".

erinja (Покажи профила) 06 февруари 2013, 04:04:47

I'd say hakviando for ground meat.

I personally reserve "hamburgero" for an actual prepared hamburger.

Simon Pure (Покажи профила) 06 февруари 2013, 10:24:26

I should have spent a bit more time on Vortaro.net.

haketi - Distranĉi en pecetojn: haketi viandon, cepojn, pajlon. ☞ mueli.
haketaĵo - Dispecigita manĝaĵo: vianda, legoma, rostita haketaĵo. ☞ hamburgero, pasteĉo, rijeto.

I like haketaĵo. It fits (in my head) with the English (UK) use of mince.

PS Should the picture dictionary be corrected? Farĉo certainly is not correct.

sudanglo (Покажи профила) 06 февруари 2013, 14:02:48

Although haki usually implies a result in which the item hakita is in separate pieces (ne ligitaj), once you add 'aĵ' to haketi, I think the effect is present the result as a combined mass.

However, I think the process of mincing is closer to mueli than haki, so I would be inclined to think of mince as muelita viando. Perhaps you could argue that haketi is mincing, but it doesn't quite work for me. Also all the mincers that I have seen seem to be rotary in action.

I'm not sure about haketi as to whether that implies that the result is finely chopped (smaller pieces) or that the process is less vigorous than haki (ie smaller cuts). I would be inclined to the latter.

Chainy (Покажи профила) 06 февруари 2013, 20:58:46

erinja:I'd say hakviando for ground meat.
This follows the pattern of the German word 'Hackfleisch'. I like the sound of it.

sudanglo (Покажи профила) 06 февруари 2013, 21:18:02

This follows the pattern of the German word 'Hackfleisch'. I like the sound of it.
I wonder then how the Germans distinguish between diced meat (cut into rough cubes) and mince. Some recipes would require one, others the other.

Kirilo81 (Покажи профила) 07 февруари 2013, 08:59:43

sudanglo:
This follows the pattern of the German word 'Hackfleisch'. I like the sound of it.
I wonder then how the Germans distinguish between diced meat (cut into rough cubes) and mince. Some recipes would require one, others the other.
The first one is "Geschnetzeltes" (schnetzeln "to cut meat into small pieces"; yes Schnitzel belonges here, too), the second one "Gehacktes" (and both of'em are disgusting for me okulumo.gif).

sudanglo (Покажи профила) 08 февруари 2013, 15:35:39

Oh goody! German speakers can distinguish between mincing and dicing. However, is there a compelling reason why one should calque the German for mince into Esperanto.

Americans say ground meat for mince-meat. Well to grind is mueli not haketi.

Do you haketi your coffee beans or pepper corns?

For me haketi is what some small carrion eater might do to the corpse of larger animal, or how some crazed dwarf might attack a normal adult with a small blade.

Kirilo81 (Покажи профила) 08 февруари 2013, 20:43:33

sudanglo:
Americans say ground meat for mince-meat. Well to grind is mueli not haketi.

Do you haketi your coffee beans or pepper corns?
Of course "ground meat" would be more logical in German, too, I think the name comes from a time when the meat was actually produced by hacking.
But E-o shouldn't have this germanism, I agree.
It is "viandmuelilo", not *viandhak(et)ilo, so why not muelviando?

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