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How reliable is Google Translate?

door sheep12, 26 februari 2013

Berichten: 23

Taal: English

sheep12 (Profiel tonen) 26 februari 2013 13:03:57

Hello,
I'm a beginner of Esperanto language.
Since I don't have a conventional paper dictionary, I mostly just use the dictionary in Lernu! when I write Esperanto. But as far as I'm concerned, Lernu!'s dictionary doesn't support idioms, so sometimes, well, sort of often I don't know which word I should use.
For example, I don't know how to say "for example" in Esperanto. Is it "Por ekzenplo" or "Ekzemple"?
I don't know how to say "In future" in Esperanto. Is it "En futuro" or "Future"?
I use Google translate to check my Esperanto sentence. But I'm not 100% sure how accurate Google translate is with Esperanto-English. Google translate is disastrous when it's used for Japanese-English translation because of the huge linguistic difference.
Has anyone tried Google translate? If you are advanced level in Esperanto, please tell me how accurately it works.

WrzodX (Profiel tonen) 26 februari 2013 13:37:14

Well, I am not at advanced level of Esperanto (nor even English), but as far as I know, both options are allowed. I often use Google Translate when writing in Esperanto and I think it's fairly reliable. However, I am not familiar with how it actually works.

darkweasel (Profiel tonen) 26 februari 2013 15:00:56

"In future" can be en la futuro or future. In English you often don't use the definite article with abstract nouns, but in Esperanto you often do (just as in many European languages), e.g. "humanity" is la homaro.

Ekzemple is the most common expression for "for example", a search in the Tekstaro finds significantly more hits for ekzemple than for por ekzemplo. However I wouldn't judge the latter as incorrect.

Breto (Profiel tonen) 26 februari 2013 15:15:32

Google Translate works to an extent with basic words, but in my experience it starts to hiccup with compounds. Certainly, the more closely the phrasing follows English norms, the better GT does, but since Esperanto can use word orders and constructions wildly different from English as well, the translation starts to fall apart there.

For my purposes, I almost always default to the Lernu dictionary, but if that does not cover my needs, I also consult the Reta Vortaro and/or Vikipedio. Although the last one is not foolproof, I've found words the first two sources did not give me more than once by looking the word up in Wikipedia, and then linking to the Esperanto article.

"For example" I almost always see rendered as "ekzemple" ("example-ly" or "example-wise" ). As for "in future", I could be wrong here, but I think you might have the wrong root. I believe "futuro" is specifically a grammar term, referring to the future tense. Usually when the future refers to times yet to come, I've seen the word "estonteco" (est'ont'ec'o, "abstract concept of going-to-be" ).

I would consult some of the more advanced Esperantists regarding futuro/estonteco, though. I may be seeing a distinction where none exists.

darkweasel (Profiel tonen) 26 februari 2013 15:48:18

Breto:
I would consult some of the more advanced Esperantists regarding futuro/estonteco, though. I may be seeing a distinction where none exists.
vortaro.net says that "estonteco" is one of the meanings of futuro. So does ReVo, but it says that it's "uncommon".

You are however right that estonteco is preferable outside of linguistics.

Ondo (Profiel tonen) 26 februari 2013 17:01:32

sheep12:For example, I don't know how to say "for example" in Esperanto. Is it "Por ekzenplo" or "Ekzemple"?
I don't know how to say "In future" in Esperanto. Is it "En futuro" or "Future"?
The normal way of saying "for example" is "ekzemple", so "e.g." is "ekz." or "ekz-e". It's not wrong to say "por ekzemplo".

"In future" (or "in the future" ) is usually "estonte" or "en (la) estonteco" or even "onte". The principal meaning of "futuro" is "the future tense". Sometimes you can see it used for "estonteco", too. But "en (la) futuro" is seldom used for "estonte", "en la estonteco".

sheep12:I use Google translate to check my Esperanto sentence. But I'm not 100% sure how accurate Google translate is with Esperanto-English. Google translate is disastrous when it's used for Japanese-English translation
For the phrase "In the future." Google gives me only "En la estonteco", and "For example" is "Ekzemple". Google gives different translations in differnt contexts. – Google can be disastrous for Esperanto, too,

Vespero_ (Profiel tonen) 26 februari 2013 17:45:05

Google Translate does a surprisingly good job for the small amount of reference material it has access to.
Either way, it still struggles with basic verb tensing. Traduku works pretty well. Mix and match translators and also do single-word translation.

Roberto12 (Profiel tonen) 26 februari 2013 18:34:37

I've had mixed experiences with google translate. I'd recommend using it in conjunction with sites like ReVo and Lernu.

Regarding the future and the past, I sense a drift away from the "est'nteco" words towards la futuro and la paseo, and I think this is to be welcomed (cf. the optionalisation of Ĥ). Estonteco is long, crude (thanks to there not being a suffix meaning time-of; NB the existence of the more passable "estonttempo" ), and, crucially, it is only one unstressed vowel different from estinteco!

Ganove (Profiel tonen) 26 februari 2013 19:42:53

I would recommend to use Google Translator in order to help understanding a foreign language but not to translate an actual text into a forgein language, since it is just a machine and machines aren't that intelligence by nature.

If you cannot find a suitable translation for a phrase or word you searched in an Esperanto dictionary, it would be a better idea to ask in the forum than the Google Translator.

As for me, if I search an expression or a word in the dictionary and I cannot find it, my next step is to search for synonyms or, since I also know English and Spanish, I try to find it in a different dictionary. If I have found a word, then I make sure that it is the searched word by re-translating it and searching its usage in sentences. In about 95% of the cases I find a solution.

If I don't find a solution or if I am not sure if it is the right one I ask in the forum.

'in the future' also means 'the time that will come' so a more figurative translation could be 'en venonta tempo', 'venonte tempe', 'tempvenonte' or 'venonttempe' but I couldn't find any search hints for the latter three so they probably aren't used.

Another idea could be to give a period starting from now or today, e.g. as of/from now/today.

A little overview of search results on lernu.net:
"en la estonteco" 113'000 results
"future" 11'900 results (not reliable, includes English results as well)
"estontece" 3'850 results
"en estonteco" 1'600 results
"en venonta tempo" 1'490 results
"de hodiaŭ" 1'450 results
"onte" 328 results (not reliable, includes grammar page
"estonte" 9 results
"en la futuro" 4 results
"venonte tempe" 0 results
"tempvenonte" 0 results
"venonttempe" 0 results

Chainy (Profiel tonen) 26 februari 2013 20:31:19

I've updated the Lernu dictionary:
past = pasinta, pasinteco, paseo; (gram) preterit-o, -a, pasinta tempo; preter, -e; at half past four: je duono post la kvara, je la kvara kaj duono (tridek)
- to be honest, I don't really like word 'paseo'. I certainly don't come across it very often, and what's wrong with 'pasinteco'?! Still, this dubious word 'paseo' can be found in vortaro.net (NPIV). ReVo marks it as malofte, which seems pretty accurate to me. Perhaps we should add 'uncommon' in brackets next to 'paseo'?

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