メッセージ: 33
言語: English
fontanaplumo (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月7日 8:48:49
In English, we can say I'm eating food (I'm eating food right now), and, I eat food (I eat food, in the general sense, food is what I eat).
So in Esperanto, we can say mi manĝas manĝon (I'm eating food), but if we want to say I eat food in the general sense, do we still say mi manĝas manĝon, or do we use the infinitive instead and say mi manĝi manĝon?
Now before someone complains that one could just say mi manĝas with "food" being implied, there are other phrases where this applies, such as I'm pushing buttons, or, I push buttons.
Mi puŝas butonojn aŭ mi puŝi butonojn.
Dankon!
Sbgodin (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月7日 9:34:02
Sorry for this. As I thought in Esperanto, I wrote so.
Saluton al vi,
Hi!
fontanaplumo:Saluton kaj salutojn! As one would guess, I have a question.Jes. Kutime, pro simpleco, oni ne distingas inter la du kazoj ĉar la kunteksto ebligas distingon. Tamen, eblas uzi kompleksan formon kiel "estas -anta" : Mi estas manĝanta.
In English, we can say I'm eating food (I'm eating food right now), and, I eat food (I eat food, in the general sense, food is what I eat).
So in Esperanto, we can say mi manĝas manĝon (I'm eating food), but if we want to say I eat food in the general sense, do we still say mi manĝas manĝon, or do we use the infinitive instead and say mi manĝi manĝon?
Yes. Usually, because of simplicity, it's not necessary to tell the difference between the two ways because the context is also helpful. Besides, it's possible to use the complex form "estas -anta": Mi estas manĝanta.
Now before someone complains that one could just say mi manĝas with "food" being implied, there are other phrases where this applies, such as I'm pushing buttons, or, I push buttons."mi puŝi butonojn" estas malkorekta.
Mi puŝas butonojn aŭ mi puŝi butonojn.
"mi puŝi butonojn" is incorrect.
Ekzemplaro / Examples
Mi puŝas butonon kiam mi bezonas ŝalti ion.
Ne perturbu min kiam mi estas puŝanta butonon aŭ mi eraras.
sudanglo (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月7日 9:50:50
To have put this aspect of English verbal grammar in Esperanto would have led to much difficulty, as would the incorporation of a requirement to always explicitly distinguish between I X-ed and I have X-ed.
You will find foreigners, after 10 years of study of English, still lacking in mastery of this aspect of English verb grammar.
Ganove (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月7日 10:24:57
first of all, welcome here in the forum!
If you put a personal pronoun like "mi, vi, li, ŝi, ĝi, ni, ili " at a verb - normally in front of it - the verb has to get one of the "-is, -as, -os" tags indicating the grammatical tense. This process is called "inflection" or "conjugation" of a verb.
In English it doesn't sound good if you say "I be", "you be", "he be", "she be" and so on. In Esperanto it doesn't either. You use their conjugated forms: I am, you are, he/she/it is...
Keep in mind: An inflected verb always requires a tense tag and vise versa.
fontanaplumo:So in Esperanto, we can say mi manĝas manĝon (I'm eating food), but if we want to say I eat food in the general sense, do we still say mi manĝas manĝon, or do we use the infinitive instead and say mi manĝi manĝon?As for "as", it indicates the sense of present. It is not equal to English present tense and its derivated constructions.
Usually you can also use the "-as" tag if you talk about a progressive process in the preset.
In order to indicate the present progressive process you can use adverbs - as we do in Germans too - indicating a progressive process, for instance "momente" which means "in the moment".
Indeed, there is a way for constructing something similar to the English present progressive tense but since Esperanto tends to be simple and easy, it isn't used that often in that context.
"personal pronoun/subject" + "estas" + "verb root" + "anta/antaj"
Watch the correlation between the subject's grammatical number and the adjetive.
fontanaplumo:Now before someone complains that one could just say mi manĝas with "food" being implied, there are other phrases where this applies, such as I'm pushing buttons, or, I push buttons.It is absolutely okay if you use such construction.
sudanglo (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月7日 12:08:02
This process is called "inflection" or "conjugation" of a verb.Very grand words for what in Esperanto is just a simple process of kunmeto.
The principle is 'as' means verb (present tense). So X-as is the idea of X expressed verbally in the present.
The beauty is that the only restrictions on X are that it make sense if you say X-as. (Naturally, it doesn't change depending on who is doing the X-ing.)
The whole language works by this process of kunmeto, the stringing together of elements.
In Esperanto the dividing line between grammar and meaning is considerably blurred by this mechanism. If you were learning French you would have to spend hours and hours on 'Grammar' lessons to do with the verb. Not so in Esperanto. You just learn the meaning/function of a handful of elements, and then you have access to the whole universe of verbs, that have ever existed, or might exist.
fontanaplumo (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月7日 19:19:39
So if I'm understanding it correctly, saying "I'm eating food" and "I eat food" are rather unique English expressions and due to the simplicity of Esperanto, "mi manĝas manĝon" would work for both, and if you wanted greater specificity you'd add some greater time indication, such as "mi manĝas manĝon kelkfoje" or "mi manĝas manĝon nun".
Continuing the fun with infinitives, in English we can say "he walked through" or "he was walking through", with the latter usually being reserved for storytelling. In Esperanto, am I correct in believing these same ideas can be expressed, respectively, with "li marŝis tra" and "li estis marŝi tra"?
Sbgodin (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月7日 19:40:15
fontanaplumo:So if I'm understanding it correctly, saying "I'm eating food" and "I eat food" are rather unique English expressions and due to the simplicity of Esperanto, "mi manĝas manĝon" would work for both, and if you wanted greater specificity you'd add some greater time indication, such as "mi manĝas manĝon kelkfoje" or "mi manĝas manĝon nun".Indeed not. The definition of manĝo is the act of eating. Something which you eat is manĝaĵo.
I'm eating food can be translated in Mi manĝas manĝaĵon or Mi estas manĝanta manĝaĵon. The context may require the -anta form, but usually does not.
I eat food is to be translated by Mi manĝas manĝaĵon.
fontanaplumo (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月7日 21:49:54
Sbgodin:Indeed not. The definition of manĝo is the act of eating. Something which you eat is manĝaĵo.According to the various dictionaries I've consulted, "manĝo" does indeed mean meal or food, but the definition of "manĝo" is quite off-topic for this thread.
I'm eating food can be translated in Mi manĝas manĝaĵon or Mi estas manĝanta manĝaĵon. The context may require the -anta form, but usually does not.
I eat food is to be translated by Mi manĝas manĝaĵon.
Sbgodin (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月7日 22:27:46
fontanaplumo:According to the various dictionaries I've consulted, "manĝo" does indeed mean meal or food, but the definition of "manĝo" is quite off-topic for this thread.I'm interested in your dictionaries, please provide them.
Here are my sources:
- Lernu (eo->en): meal
- Dictionnaire pratique de SAT amikaro: repas (meal in English)
- Vortaro.net: Ago manĝi
- Reta Vortaro: repas (meal in english)
- Tatoeba: meal
- Wikipedia: « Manĝo estas aparta momento dum la taga agadoj destinata al nutrado. »
Ondo (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月8日 8:19:46
Sbgodin:Here are my sources:You need a lot of creative imagination to infer that your sources forbid the meaning "manĝo" = "something you eat". (And Fontanaplumo is right, of course: the definition of "manĝo" is quite off-topic for this thread.)
Lernu (eo->en): meal
Dictionnaire pratique de SAT amikaro: repas (meal in English)
Vortaro.net: Ago manĝi
Reta Vortaro: repas (meal in english)
Tatoeba: meal
Wikipedia: « Manĝo estas aparta momento dum la taga agadoj destinata al nutrado. »