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Necesejo

Simon Pure,2013年3月8日の

メッセージ: 24

言語: English

Simon Pure (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月8日 19:23:13

The Lernu! Picture dictionary has an image of a toilet and labels it 'necesejo.' This seems to me to take the euphemism too far.

I am trying to toilet train a three year old and teach him Esperanto. When we are already in the necesejo it seems odd to then ask him to sit on the necesejo. (I have seen some use tualeto but this is defined by vortaro as toiletries.)

If I entered a hardware shop in Esperantujo and wanted to buy a toilet what word would I use?

sudanglo (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月8日 20:22:37

If only there were hardware shops in Esperantujo!

You could say necesabo (compare with lavabo), or klozeta pelvo.

However, in English, you can be sitting on the toilet in a toilet.

Scratch (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月8日 20:57:14

How about the word necesujo for the toilet itself? I see the Lernu vortaro has that meaning toilet bowl, tool-box, toilet, and kit.

EldanarLambetur (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月8日 20:59:30

Yeah, on the necesejo in the necesejo sounds fine by me! But if you wanna be messing with words, and changing things up for fun but keeping a little alliteration, you could use:

"Necesejo" for the toilet room, and "necesujo" for the actual toilet.

EDIT: Scratch got there a little quicker than me ridego.gif

sudanglo (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月8日 21:03:44

Unfortunately necesujo already has a defined meaning which has nothing to do with toilets. Look it up in PIV

Scratch (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月8日 21:17:20

Unfortunately, I can't look at vortaro.net right now because the work filter blocks it for falling under the category of Social Networking. Yeah, that's got me stumped, I don't know how whoever put together the filtering categories ever ended up looking at the PIV site and deciding, "It's in some strange language, it must be social networking."

Google has shown me some people saying that they have used necesujo to mean toilet. And it was in fact my own sort of still young and sometimes errant Esperanto word-building instinct that made me think, "How about necesujo?"

Part of the problem derives from the fact that necesejo is euphemistic, and is a bit of an oddity in a language which is largely stripped of those kinds of euphemisms. Somehow, it seems very much to me that if one is going to allow that necesejo can mean a room with a toilet, then it opens the door to allowing necesujo to have a euphemistic meaning of a toilet itself.

erinja (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月8日 21:59:36

There's fekseĝo. Is that non-euphemistic enough for you? (it's in PIV, but I do wonder if it would be better applied to an outhouse than to a real toilet)

I don't see it as a problem to have both the room and the item to be called a "necesejo". Seems very in line with British usage, they go into the toilet to use a toilet.

EldanarLambetur (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月8日 23:06:28

sudanglo:Unfortunately necesujo already has a defined meaning which has nothing to do with toilets. Look it up in PIV
So it does!
There's fekseĝo.
Hehe nice, I wonder if that's not the best word to teach the 3-year-old though lango.gif

I guess in the context, if you're talking about a "necesejo", it'll be clear that you're not after the more literal sense of "necesujo".

robbkvasnak (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月8日 23:22:17

I propose: Necesseĝo. After all - we still have a funny bone in Esperantio
Or we can go back to the English derivation of the French word "toilette" (which comes from 'toile' - cloth) and take the Esperanto tualeto and turn it into 'tualetejo' which is the room in which one cares for one's hygiene and use the Esperanto 'latrino' which according to PIV is a more primitive 'necesejo' but indeed Esperanto. Or skuttle our butts over to Hawai'i which uses 'lua' (hole) and 'ipu lua' for toilet bowl (hole/hollw gourd) and thus use 'truo' or 'truseĝo' and 'truejo'. What the fek! hehehehe

efilzeo (プロフィールを表示) 2013年3月9日 0:21:33

Aŭ necesilo.

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