Contribuții/Mesaje: 9
Limbă: English
sindyr (Arată profil) 12 martie 2013, 00:50:55
Possibly: "Me ŝatas gin tiel." ? Is there a better translation?
Question Two - about most of the K- and T- correlatives: Do they *always* have to be used together?
"I liked what he said"
"Mi ŝatas tion, kion li diris"
but can it ever be:
"Mi ŝatas kion li diris"
What is the more common spoken translation?
Or: "She moved like a cat"
What I have learned: "Ŝi moviĝis tiel, kiel kato."
What feel less stilted to me "Ŝi moviĝis kiel kato."
Thoughts? And I am especially asking about common *spoken* Esperanto, if there's a difference.
It just that I find every tio/kio, tiel/kiel, tia/kia etc combination quite cumbersome, especially conversationally.
RiotNrrd (Arată profil) 12 martie 2013, 01:53:42
There does seem to be (for me, at any rate) a kind of psychological pressure to pair them up by type. But it's fundamentally a self-imposed pressure. There is nothing in Esperanto that forbids using one type with another. As long as the pairings makes sense, go to town with them. Kio does not have to pair with tio. Tiel does not have to pair with kiel. And so on. The correlatives often do pair up according to type, of course. But there is no rule saying that they always and only must do so.
RiotNrrd (Arată profil) 12 martie 2013, 02:01:29
The book is available for sale at the Esperanto USA bookstore, but it is also available for free as a website, directly from the author himself. I think there's a free-and-legal pdf available somewhere as well, but I don't have a link for that.
I consider it a volume for intermediate students rather than beginners, but it can't hurt to take a look (if you're interested). It's a really excellent resource.
sindyr (Arată profil) 12 martie 2013, 02:36:02
Edit: To clarify, my question is more about can you use the K- without the T- and/or vice versa - or do you have to always follow the pattern of:
blah blah blah t-correlative, k-correlative blah blah blah.
Can either the T- or the K- be omitted so that it's just:
blah blah blah k-correlative blah blah blah.
("I asked him what he wanted.", can one use "Mi demandis lin pri kion li volis." or must we always use the more cumbersome "Mi demandis lin pri tio, kion li volis." - especially in spoken Esperanto. What is the most common conversational way to say "I asked him what he wanted."?)
erinja (Arată profil) 12 martie 2013, 03:41:48
For example:
Mi aŭdis tion, kion li diris - same endings. You can also say "Mi aŭdis kion li diris".
Mi ne ŝatas tion, kio li estas - different endings. Theoretically you can't drop the "tion". In practice, people do sometimes drop it in colloquial speech.
There is little difference between written and spoken Esperanto. In my opinion it's a good idea to be pretty strict with your grammar and usage until you've spent a good amount of time with Esperanto speakers, enough time to figure out what the minor differences are between colloquial speech and good writing, and until you speak well enough that if you leave it out, people know that you did it on purpose, not simply because you don't speak the language well.
erinja (Arată profil) 12 martie 2013, 03:49:38
sindyr:Question One: How do you translate "I like it like that" (Yes, I listen to pop music, grin.)Forgot this part. Obviously it's "mi" and not "me", and "ĝin" not "gin".
Possibly: "Me ŝatas gin tiel." ? Is there a better translation?
But aside from that - "ĝi" is not used even close to as often as "it" is used in English. "Ĝi" is used to replace a noun. If you can't name the noun that "ĝi" is replacing, don't use it. "Ĝi" is seldom used to talk about things that aren't concrete. So if you're eating a grilled steak and you like steak to be grilled, you could "Mi ŝatas ĝin tiel", beacuse it's clear that "ĝi" refers to the steak, and "tiel" refers to the steak being grilled, and that's fine.
If, let's say, you are dancing with someone, and you are enjoying the dancing (keeping this PG here), and you'd say "I like it like that" in English - I wouldn't say "mi ŝatas ĝin tiel" in Esperanto. What is "ĝi" referring to, exactly? It sounds weird to the Esperanto ear when it isn't something concrete. "Ĝi" is not normally used to refer to nouns of action, for example, so it would be a bit strange to use "ĝi" to replace a word like "dancado" (dancing).
matrix (Arată profil) 12 martie 2013, 04:21:50
sindyr:Question One: How do you translate "I like it like that" (Yes, I listen to pop music, grin.)“I like it like that.” → “Mi ŝatas ĝin tia.”: tia ‒ adjective ‒ refers to ĝi/n ‒ personal pronoun.
Possibly: "Me ŝatas gin tiel." ? Is there a better translation?
“Mi ŝatas ĝin tiel.” → “I like it this way.”, “That’s the way I like it.”: tiel ‒ adverb ‒ refers to ŝat/as ‒ verb.
sindyr:Question Two - about most of the K- and T- correlatives: Do they *always* have to be used together?“I liked what he said.” → “Mi ŝatis tion, kion li diris.” → “Mi ŝatis, kion li diris.”
“She moved like a cat.” → “Ŝi moviĝis tiel, kiel (moviĝas) kato.” → “Ŝi moviĝis, kiel kato.”
“I asked him what he wanted.” → “Mi demandis al li tion, kion li volis.”, “Mi demandis lin pri tio, kion li volis.” → “Mi demandis al li, kion li volis.”, “Mi demandis lin, pri kio li volis.”
Indeed, you can take out some correlatives in spoken language ‒ even sometimes in written language ‒, provided your statement keep being clear.
However, it is advised to the beginner to get used to them. Further, they are pretty useful in complex constructions.
sudanglo
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sudanglo (Arată profil) 12 martie 2013, 09:56:39
I like it like that.tiel plaĉas; tion mi ŝatas; pli bone tiel - assuming the it is not particular (Erinja's comment)
sindyr (Arată profil) 12 martie 2013, 13:27:20
There is a song by a band called Hot Chelle Rae, called I Like It Like That, here's the song complete with lyrics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6alxZpkh_XI
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/hotchellerae/ilikei...
So... the way Hot Chelle Rae uses this phrase - what's the best way to get across both the denotation and the connotation of what *they* are trying to say?
I could make an attempt to tell you using lots and lots of words what I think they mean when they say "I like it like that", but perhaps I should just let the song speak for itself via the links above and simply ask, if one wanted to translate their song to Esperanto, how would one translate that line ("I like it like that") for greatest fidelity? (Leaning maybe toward the "Tion mi ŝatas" or possibly "Tial mi ŝatas" even?)
I may be falling into the pit of trying to translate this whole song - in the past I have enjoyed translating various current pop songs in Esperanto and learned them by heart to sing out loud.
Thanks all. This is incredibly helpful.