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order of adverbials

od Ganove, 21. ožujka 2013.

Poruke: 7

Jezik: English

Ganove (Prikaz profila) 21. ožujka 2013. 18:29:53

Hello,

I am not sure where I have to put adverbials in a sentence in Esperanto.
I know there are different kinds of adverbials.

According to Lernu's detala gramatiko page about word order, Esperanto's word order usually looks like that:
subject — predicate — object — other sentence elements

So far I put an adverbial:
-of manner behind the predicate (e.g. Mi iras rapide.)
-of place behind the object (e.g. Li iras hejmen.)
-of frequency in front of the predicate (e.g. Ŝi ofte kantas.)
-of time in the beginning or in the end of a sentence (e.g. Morgaŭ mi lernos Esperanton./Mi lernos Esperanton morgaŭ.)

I am not sure if these rules are common in Esperanto so I would be glad if you could correct them, if they are wrong.

Thank you for your help!

Matthieu (Prikaz profila) 21. ožujka 2013. 19:53:09

All your sentences are perfectly correct, you can keep using them.

sudanglo (Prikaz profila) 21. ožujka 2013. 21:57:37

As far as I am aware there are no rules of placement of adverbs in relation to their type. This would be an unnecessary complication in the language

However that is not to say that there are no nuances or shifts of emphasis in relation to the position of the adverb.

Mi ĝojas aŭdi ke vi morgaŭ lernos Esperanton.

Ganove (Prikaz profila) 22. ožujka 2013. 06:45:26

sudanglo:As far as I am aware there are no rules of placement of adverbs in relation to their type. This would be an unnecessary complication in the language

However that is not to say that there are no nuances or shifts of emphasis in relation to the position of the adverb.

Mi ĝojas aŭdi ke vi morgaŭ lernos Esperanton.
You are right, actually there are no rules of placement of adverbs in Esperanto.

However, we Esperantists tend to use a common way, e.g. we use an adjective-substantive construction more frequently than a substantive-adjective construction.
That's why I thought there could be also a common way of placement of adverbs.

sudanglo (Prikaz profila) 22. ožujka 2013. 09:41:22

It is almost certainly statistically true that, say, sperta Esperantisto is more common than Esperantista sperta, but there's no sense in making a rule about this. And it is usually pretty obvious when the less common order is stylistically more effective.

But to directly answer your question, my guess would be that it is a 50:50 split for adverb before verb or after.

There is an academic study on the statistics of word ordering which you might find interesting. 'Naturaj vortordoj en Esperanto', Wim Jansen. 2008, pub UEA. It is not expensive and you should be able to get it through your local libro-servo.

Ganove (Prikaz profila) 23. ožujka 2013. 07:29:01

sudanglo:It is almost certainly statistically true that, say, sperta Esperantisto is more common than Esperantista sperta, but there's no sense in making a rule about this. And it is usually pretty obvious when the less common order is stylistically more effective.
Oh, then I used the wrong word, I am sorry. I thought "rule" also includes the meaning of "guideline". I wanted to say something like a "common use".

sudanglo:But to directly answer your question, my guess would be that it is a 50:50 split for adverb before verb or after.
Thanks, now I have something like a guideline.

sudanglo:There is an academic study on the statistics of word ordering which you might find interesting. 'Naturaj vortordoj en Esperanto', Wim Jansen. 2008, pub UEA. It is not expensive and you should be able to get it through your local libro-servo.
That sounds really interesting. Thank you for your recommendation, I am going to buy it at esperanto.org.uk, it just costs £3.80 + shipping. As you said, it is not expensive.

Thank you, for all of your answers!

pdenisowski (Prikaz profila) 23. ožujka 2013. 12:46:39

Ganove:Hello,

I am not sure where I have to put adverbials in a sentence in Esperanto.
I know there are different kinds of adverbials.

So far I put an adverbial:
-of manner behind the predicate (e.g. Mi iras rapide.)
-of place behind the object (e.g. Li iras hejmen.)
-of frequency in front of the predicate (e.g. Ŝi ofte kantas.)
-of time in the beginning or in the end of a sentence (e.g. Morgaŭ mi lernos Esperanton./Mi lernos Esperanton morgaŭ.)

I am not sure if these rules are common in Esperanto so I would be glad if you could correct them, if they are wrong.
Assuming you're a German speaker (?) then you might be thinking of something similar to the rules for position of adverbials in German (the "tekamolo" order - temporale, kausale, modale, und lokale)

In my experience there is no corresponding rule (or accepted usage) in Esperanto. In fact, I have a hard time thinking of any language other than German that has such strict rules on the placement of adverbials.

Amike,

Paul

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