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American Pit Bull Dog?

de jkph00, 2013-marto-30

Mesaĝoj: 18

Lingvo: English

jkph00 (Montri la profilon) 2013-marto-30 18:30:22

The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) is described by the Wikpedia as, "...a medium-sized, solidly built, short haired dog whose early ancestors came from England and Ireland. It is a member of the molosser breed group. The American Staffordshire Terrier and The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) by breed are from the same lineage; Staffordshires was the name given by AKC, and American Pitt Bull Terriers by UKC. The real difference between the two breeds is 6–8" in height and 25–35 lbs in weight. The APBT tends to be the larger of the two. This does not include the Staffordshire Bull Terrier."

I found buldogo but cannot find how to accurately further distinguish between the APBT and a bull dog. Does anyone have the full name for the APBT in Esperanto I could use? Dankon!

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2013-marto-31 11:02:23

What often happens in Esperanto for the names of animals and birds is that there is some adaption of the latin or scientific name. So one possibility is to research that and make your own adaptation, JK.

It seems that Esperanto recognizes buldogo, terhundo and mopso for bulldog, terrier and pug, - and dogo for a broad subgroup of hund-rasoj.

You might me able to pick 'n mix among these terms for a suitable label for the breed in question.

Is an American pit bull a sort of dogo or a sort of terhundo? Some specialist knowledge is required here beyond my modest scio.

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2013-marto-31 13:17:22

All domestic dogs have the same Latin name, however, so this doesn't really work.

No one is really translating the AKC handbook into Esperanto or holding dog shows in Esperanto, so this vocabulary is not well developed. The dog thing seems to be to breed dogs that vary from one another in very minor ways, then give them a new name as they diverge a bit more.

If it were me, and if the term "buldogo" already exists for a similar British breed, I'd be inclined to go with "Usona buldogo" for the American variant (which according to your description is basically the same thing only with different dimensions?)

And if pit bulls are a breed that basically only exist as a separate recognized breed in the US, then I'd be inclined to simply Esperantize the US name for it. ("usona pitbulo" maybe)

This is what I also do for foods that have a particular name and basically exist only in one place.

jkph00 (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-01 01:38:42

erinja:All domestic dogs have the same Latin name, however, so this doesn't really work.

…

If it were me, and if the term "buldogo" already exists for a similar British breed, I'd be inclined to go with "Usona buldogo" for the American variant (which according to your description is basically the same thing only with different dimensions?)
Erinja and Sudanglo, I found the term "buldogo" for a bull dog, a different breed. Far different, in fact. Whereas a bulldog is a wonderful pet, APBTs are feared as potentially vicious killers. That's what they were bred for, killing in pits. I am interested in adequately differentiating the breed because my son bought one and was given three days to get out of his apartment as a result.

erinja:And if pit bulls are a breed that basically only exist as a separate recognized breed in the US, then I'd be inclined to simply Esperantize the US name for it. ("usona pitbulo" maybe)
Sudanglo, they are also known as American Staffordshire Terriers, but I could find nothing for that either. I suspect that Erinja's suggestion of "usona pitbulo" will work until someone translates the AKC or BKC manuals. You know, it could be fun to organize an Esperanto dog show and require the Esperantist owners to come up with workable names. ridulo.gif

erinja:This is what I also do for foods that have a particular name and basically exist only in one place.
Obviously a pragmatist, Erinja! Thank you both! Again I learn much from you.

P.S. Sudanglo, the Ramsgate Congress web is a delight. I have learned a lot from reading through the notes and exchanges. Thanks to you all.

Kurt

J_Marc (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-01 05:04:29

jkph00: I found the term "buldogo" for a bull dog, a different breed. Far different, in fact. Whereas a bulldog is a wonderful pet, APBTs are feared as potentially vicious killers. That's what they were bred for, killing in pits. I am interested in adequately differentiating the breed because my son bought one and was given three days to get out of his apartment as a result.
I have a feeling this breed is illegal in my own homeland, due to its mordemeco. I remembered reading that they were originally bred for dogfights in pits, cheap bloodsport for the lower classes, like the Coliseum but without the lions and Peter Ustinov.

I reckon the 'fighting' part ought to be in the name, because 'pitbull' in English has a connotation of brawling, eg., "Watch out for that bloke, he's a bit of a pitbull when he's had too many!"

Usona batala terhundo (American Fighting Terrier - ReVo has 'terhundo' for terrier. Is 'earth-dog' a happy double ententre, or a weird one?) Or just (usona) batala hundo. (American Fighting Dog)

Don't tease the earth-dog, kids. He doesn't like it.

The Eshperantho version might be "Hundo de la Bova Fosaĵo".

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-02 09:14:25

While we are on the subject of dogs, I am led to make a comment of the translation chosen for the Esperanto title of Hound of the Baskervilles. Auld went for 'la Ĉashundo de la Baskerviloj'.

But this seems lame. The title of the French translation I have is even lamer 'Le chien des Baskervilles'.

However La demona dogo de la Baskerviloj has a suitable air of menace and mystery.

Dogoj are much more threatening than hundoj (could be anything from pekinese to poodle)

Ondo (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-02 16:28:10

sudanglo:Auld went for 'la Hundo de la Baskerviloj'.
'La ĉashundo de la Baskerviloj' http://katalogo.uea.org/grandaj/5706.jpg

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-03 02:42:30

Pit bulls are not more dangerous than other dogs (unless raised to be aggressive by their owners - which is unfortunately all too common). They make a great family pet; unfortunately, the type of person who is looking for a "tough" dog and wants to train their dog to be aggressive is likely to get a pit bull (or another dog with a "dangerous" reputation like a rottweiler, a doberman, etc.), perpetuating the stereotype.

It's unfair to characterize them all as dangerous menaces to society due to the actions of bad people who use them abusively.

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-03 09:44:41

Yes Ondo, the Auld title uses ĉashundo (I knew that, I mistyped). But ĉashundoj in the UK can be quite loveable - perhaps they are fiercer in Finland.

Looking at the front cover that you jpg-posted, I'd say that it is more of a demona dogo.

It's true that in English hound as a verb can be ĉasi or persekuti. But the hound in the story and films is not best characterised by its hounding. It's more of a savage unearthly wild beast - mysterious and menacing.

It would be well within translator's licence to match the title better to the story.

Mustelvulpo (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-03 12:50:40

jkph00:Sudanglo, they are also known as American Staffordshire Terriers, but I could find nothing for that either. I suspect that Erinja's suggestion of "usona pitbulo" will work until someone translates the AKC or BKC manuals. You know, it could be fun to organize an Esperanto dog show and require the Esperantist owners to come up with workable names. ridulo.gif
One potential problem is that "bulo" translates as "chunk", "lump", "clod" or "ball" (in the sense of something like a meatball or snowball). This could potentially cause some confusion ,especially when spoken. "Pitbuldogo" might be more understandable. Over all, there would probably be less confusion in just using the breed names in the original language. Many breed names of dogs haven't been translated into English (e.g. Rottweiler, Dachshund, Bichon Frise) and it causes very little difficulty.

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