Al la enhavo

Someone who is patronizing?

de jkph00, 2013-aprilo-24

Mesaĝoj: 22

Lingvo: English

jkph00 (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-26 15:20:31

erinja:I like sudanglo's suggestion of "supereci". It is the meaning of patronizing, isn't it, that one person behaves as if they were somehow above another person? The bonus is that this construction uses the well-known Esperanto root super and should be easily understood by all.
Supereci is elegant, isn't it? Now how would I use affixes to turn it into a noun describing a person acting that way that I really dislike? (I haven't had much success with that so far.)

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-27 11:17:31

JK, You wouldn't have much success turning English's patronizing or to patronize into a noun.

Patronizer? I don't think so.

Ondo, I don't recognize 'patronizing excrescence' as something a speaker of British English would say. Perhaps it's an American thing.

I think one can moŝtumi without being offensively condescending.

JK the Tekstaro gives some some support to moŝtulo, which I would think could be less respectful than moŝto.

You can also say things like via sinjora/sinjorina/fraŭlina moŝto, which could be sarcastic in context. Or S-ro/S-ino/F-ino moŝto.

Moŝto with a capital 'M' seems more honorific than moŝto with lower-case 'm'.

pdenisowski (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-27 14:20:04

sudanglo:I don't recognize 'patronizing excrescence' as something a speaker of British English would say. Perhaps it's an American thing
It's more of a hapax legomenon than anything else ... only a single other hit on Google.

In cases like this, my preference has always been to find an (approximate) equivalent in the other language rather than trying to translate them. Even widely-used figures of speech are often impossible to translate.

Example : I sometimes use the phrase "in my copious free time" in English. A colleague of mine asked me to translate this into German, but I had a very hard time coming up with a way to translate "copious" into German and maintain the (ironic) sense of "abundant, much more than I could possibly ever need or use up." The closest literal translation I could get was "meine reichliche Freizeit", but I don't feel that this expression has the same ironic/sarcastic sense of the English expression.

In the end I decided that "müßige Stunden" (idle hours) was a better translation, even though it doesn't contain either the words "copious" or "free time".

Amike,

Paul

jkph00 (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-27 16:37:23

sudanglo:JK, You wouldn't have much success turning English's patronizing or to patronize into a noun.

Patronizer? I don't think so.
Hmm—m-mm—m. I haven't been successful while trying to be polite. How would I say in Esperanto, "You patronizing son-of-a-bitch!"

My apologies for the expression, but it really is what I'm looking for.

sudanglo (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-27 22:00:54

Expressions like S.O.B. have their emotional force not so much from the literal meaning as from usage. The force comes from who would use such an expression and in what circumstances.

In Esperanto-land there is only genteel society - the uncouth are notably absent.

So the only resource, is to use expressions which are repulsive from their literal meaning.

Excrement is universally disgusting so referring to a person as a sako da merdo should work.

But if you want somethjng closer to S.O.B - which is disrespectful of someone's parentage - perhaps the idea of a putinido might do. Still seems bit flat though because of the lack of support from usage. How about ĉiesulina vomaĵo?

noelekim (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-28 05:22:24

jkph00:Hmm—m-mm—m. I haven't been successful while trying to be polite. How would I say in Esperanto, "You patronizing son-of-a-bitch!"
For 'condescending' or 'patronizing' we can say 'degna' (1), but I feel you need something stronger here. I would call a patronizing son-of-a-bitch' 'degnaĉa bastardo'.

(1) La protektema kaj degna prismo tra kiu estas ofte perceptata la sorto de la virinoj de Afriko, Azio kaj Mezoriento ... eo.mondediplo.com/article1687.html

Chainy (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-28 18:30:17

The Tekstaro contains these examples from Zamenhof:

1. Malnova Testamento:
Ili mokas, ili parolas malbonintence pri premado;
Ili parolas de alte.
2. Esenco kaj Estonteco de la Ideo de Lingvo Internacia:
Dum la homoj, kiuj okupas sin je ĉia plej sencela kaj senutila sensencaĵo, se ĝi nur estas en modo kaj konforma al la rutinaj ideoj de la amaso, ĝuas ne sole ĉiujn bonojn de la vivo, sed ankaŭ la honoran nomon de “instruituloj” aŭ “utilaj publikaj agantoj”, la pioniroj de novaj ideoj renkontas nenion krom mokoj kaj atakoj; la unua renkontita tre malmulte lerninta bubo rigardas ilin de alte kaj diras al ili, ke ili okupas sin je malsaĝaĵoj; la unua renkontita gazeta felietonisto skribas pri ili “spritajn” artikolojn kaj notojn, ne preninte sur sin la laboron almenaŭ iom ekscii, super kio ili propre laboras; kaj la publiko, kiu ĉiam iras kiel anaro da ŝafoj post la kriemuloj, ridas kaj ridegas kaj eĉ por unu minuto ne faras al si la demandon, ĉu ekzistas eĉ guto da senco kaj logiko en ĉiuj tiuj ĉi “spritaj” mokoj.
3. Paroladoj de Zamenhof:
Dum ankoraŭ antaŭ ne longe oni tute silentis pri ni kaj poste oni nin mokis, nun oni jam ĉie nin respektas, kiel grandan potencon. Eĉ tiuj niaj principaj kontraŭuloj, kiuj antaŭ ne longe malŝate rigardis nin de alte, nun jam krias alarmon.

J_Marc (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-30 03:31:20

jkph00:How would I say in Esperanto, "You patronizing son-of-a-bitch!"
La patronizanta hundinaĉido. Or, if you prefer an accurate translation, how about, aroganta ulaĉo?

Some other random ones might be, connected or not;

La pro-malsaĝeca ignorindulo. (The due-to-being-foolish ignore-worthy chap)
La malriverenculo. (The one who does the opposite of revering (others))
La piedbatinda malsinjoro. (the kick-worthy un-gentleman)
La falontulo (The guy who is going to fall. Because pride comes before a fall. However I don't see a translation of that in the proverbaro.)

I wonder who is on the receiving end of your stinging words, jpkh! A character in a story, perhaps?

Miland (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-30 08:15:26

Ne superecu min looks fine, but for 'Don't patronise me' I might also use Ne moŝtu in a sarcastic sense. For SOB I might use hundido, but aĉulo might be simpler (and more genteel as well).

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2013-aprilo-30 10:27:24

A hundido could be not only a SOB but also a cute little puppy. I wouldn't use "hundido" as an insult in Esperanto, to me, it loses all of its bite.

I'd be more inclined to go with a "son of a whore" (putinido, or ĉiesulinido in a more bonlingvisma form). A dog can have positive connotations, a whore pretty much never.

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