Späť na obsah
Odpovedať

How to pronounce " kiujn " correctly?

od funfundzvanzig, 26. apríla 2013

Príspevky: 9

Jazyk: English

funfundzvanzig (Zobraziť profil) 26. apríla 2013 3:01:26

Hello!

I heard " kiujn " which made by people on lernu.net. I think I can hear exactly three sounds like (ki - u - jin ) but sometimes I feel that " u" and " jn " should be connected into one sound like ( ki - ujn). In that respect, " kiajn " as far as I know also has two sounds : ( ki - ajn ) and not able to sound like ( ki-a-jin)

Please help me !

Henry

JDnDorks (Zobraziť profil) 26. apríla 2013 5:31:44

The uj diphthong is among the hardest of Esperanto sounds for English speakers to pronounce; it does not appear in many words, but some of the words it appears in are very common (the pluralized forms of the correlatives, for instance), and so cannot be ignored. The best way to learn how it is pronounced, which can also be applied to all other diphthongs, is to imagine two words, one which ends in the first vowel sound and the other which begins the second vowel sound. Then try pronouncing these two words together with as little of a word break as possible. The uj diphthong contains the English oo (short) sound and the y semivowel. It should not be pronounced as two distinct vowel sounds -- it's ooy, not oo ee.

From http://www.alcyone.com/max/lang/esperanto/alphabet...

funfundzvanzig (Zobraziť profil) 26. apríla 2013 7:30:21

JDnDorks:The uj diphthong is among the hardest of Esperanto sounds for English speakers to pronounce; it does not appear in many words, but some of the words it appears in are very common (the pluralized forms of the correlatives, for instance), and so cannot be ignored. The best way to learn how it is pronounced, which can also be applied to all other diphthongs, is to imagine two words, one which ends in the first vowel sound and the other which begins the second vowel sound. Then try pronouncing these two words together with as little of a word break as possible. The uj diphthong contains the English oo (short) sound and the y semivowel. It should not be pronounced as two distinct vowel sounds -- it's ooy, not oo ee.

From http://www.alcyone.com/max/lang/esperanto/alphabet...
Thank you for replying,

It is true that " uj " should be pronounced as one syllable. But what I am asking for is " ujn " and " ajn ". The problem is that when " n " is added at the end of words, it seems like ki..uj..(i)n.

Please check the course " Bildoj kaj demandoj " 14.3 -> The speaker says like : ki...u...jin. In my opinion we hear the i sound between the j and n is because j can not be connected naturally with n in speaking if we do not add the vowel sound in the middle.

Any ideas?

EldanarLambetur (Zobraziť profil) 26. apríla 2013 11:48:12

I had a listen, and it sounds fine to me. I hear the "ki" as one syllable, then "ujn" as another. To me, "j" connects naturally to "n", since it is almost like a very short "i".

agarrido18 (Zobraziť profil) 26. apríla 2013 12:17:48

It's not so difficult, actually.
Sounds just okay for me.

In kiajn, it's just similar to the words : fine, dine, sine, line etc.
You just have to substitute ki so that it sounds like kee-ine, or ki-ine (since ki is a short syllable).

Just like kiujn, similar to the word 'coin' but again the 'ki' and it's like 'uin'
so kee-ujn

---

I get confused sometimes, since the letter i does possess the 'y' sound (in English) or the 'j' sound (in Esperanto) [like in the name Pia, etc] so I get to pronounce these words as /ki-jajn/ and /ki-jujn/ respectively, though I know this is wrong and I try to rule it out. But I think it's correct for kiel, kial, kies, kie, kiom

JDnDorks (Zobraziť profil) 26. apríla 2013 14:27:39

funfundzvanzig:Thank you for replying,

It is true that " uj " should be pronounced as one syllable. But what I am asking for is " ujn " and " ajn ". The problem is that when " n " is added at the end of words, it seems like ki..uj..(i)n.

Please check the course " Bildoj kaj demandoj " 14.3 -> The speaker says like : ki...u...jin. In my opinion we hear the i sound between the j and n is because j can not be connected naturally with n in speaking if we do not add the vowel sound in the middle.

Any ideas?
The rules of pronunciation don't change. The "u" sound is just weird. Consider, in english, the word "wean" (pronounced "ween" ). Now say this: "ujn". It should almost be the same word. So "kiujn" should sound something like "kee - ween". But if you say it enough, it's still going to sound kind of like "kee - oo - ween" sometimes. It's just a weird sound.

funfundzvanzig (Zobraziť profil) 26. apríla 2013 14:52:32

Followed by IPA ( International Phonetic Alphabet ), I think KIUJN is like [ kiujɪn ]

Vowel sound " ɪ " that stays between u and n can be heard in sit,fill,bill,... it is short indeed.

Since " ujn " is pronounced fast when I hear, I think it should be considered as one syllable although we can analyse it into two " small " parts. I feel very comfortable when I pronounce exactly u..j..(ɪ)...n. Anyway,....

Roberto12 (Zobraziť profil) 27. apríla 2013 11:11:10

Purists would say that OJ and UJ should be pronounced differently, and when they've got a vowel after them, this is easily possible. But when there's no following vowel, you don't have to worry about making the distinction, because as far as I'm aware, there's no possibility of confusion. So, to answer the question of the OP, you can say it like it was "kiojn" (which, of course, doesn't legally exist).

funfundzvanzig (Zobraziť profil) 27. apríla 2013 12:24:30

Roberto12:Purists would say that OJ and UJ should be pronounced differently, and when they've got a vowel after them, this is easily possible. But when there's no following vowel, you don't have to worry about making the distinction, because as far as I'm aware, there's no possibility of confusion. So, to answer the question of the OP, you can say it like it was "kiojn" (which, of course, doesn't legally exist).
Thanks Roberto,

The " kiajn " or " kiojn ( imaginary ) " does not confuse me since ajn and ojn can be pronounced just only one syllable and fast enough. A syllable always exist one vowel.

But what I heard about " kiujn " . Its sound like there is a [ I ] sound between => [ kiujb]ɪ[/b]n } . So it seems like there are two syllables pronounced. If we record our voice and replay slowly, we can see the distinction between " kiajn,kiojn " and " kiujn".

Nahor