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Use of kondiĉi

від sudanglo, 28 квітня 2013 р.

Повідомлення: 10

Мова: English

sudanglo (Переглянути профіль) 28 квітня 2013 р. 11:33:14

What does this mean?

Mia partopreno en la kongreso kondiĉas la partoprenon de mia amikino, kiu posedas la aŭton

Chainy (Переглянути профіль) 28 квітня 2013 р. 11:56:50

sudanglo:What does this mean?

Mia partopreno en la kongreso kondiĉas la partoprenon de mia amikino, kiu posedas la aŭton
= My participation at the congress requires the participation of my (girl)friend, who owns a car. (?)

- I suppose in other contexts you might translate 'kondiĉi' as 'to stipulate'. To be honest, I'm not very familiar with this verb form of kondiĉ/. I guessed the meaning when I first read the sentence, but I also had a quick look in vortaro.net and ReVo to check examples of its usage.

erinja (Переглянути профіль) 28 квітня 2013 р. 12:14:16

kondiĉi is to put in as a condition.

I think contingent works well in a translation, and if this sentence were said by an English speaker, I suspect they'd use contingent in English.

My participation in the congress is contingent upon the participation of my girlfriend, who owns the car.

sudanglo (Переглянути профіль) 28 квітня 2013 р. 17:01:39

Chainy, Erinja, I think his intended meaning was just that.

That his participation in the congress was conditional on his motorist girlfriend also coming to the congress (as he doesn't have transport).

However to express that meaning surely he needs to say

Mian partoprenon kondiĉas la partopreno de mia amikino.

As he said it, upto the point where he mentions the car, it sounds like his girlfriend won't come unless he does. Doesn't it?

jkph00 (Переглянути профіль) 28 квітня 2013 р. 17:34:44

sudanglo:Chainy, Erinja, I think his intended meaning was just that.

That his participation in the congress was conditional on his motorist girlfriend also coming to the congress (as he doesn't have transport).

However to express that meaning surely he needs to say

Mian partoprenon kondiĉas la partopreno de mia amikino.

As he said it, upto the point where he mentions the car, it sounds like his girlfriend won't come unless he does. Doesn't it?
Although I as a native speaker of English also misread it because of my unthinking imposition of an expected word order, I certainly agree that you are right. The location of the accusative case makes all the difference.

I wonder if native speakers of other languages made the same unthinking mistake? Anyone?

tommjames (Переглянути профіль) 28 квітня 2013 р. 18:03:08

My understanding was always that kondiĉi means to be contingent on something, but according to ReVo and some quick searches I've just done it can also mean to be the thing that something is contingent upon. Or to put it another way, the object of kondiĉi can be either the condition or that which depends on the condition.

sudanglo:As he said it, upto the point where he mentions the car, it sounds like his girlfriend won't come unless he does. Doesn't it?
I didn't read it that way myself. As soon as I read "Mia partopreno en la kongreso kondiĉas.." I immediately assumed he was saying "My attendance is conditional on..". I took the following parts to be the condition.

RiotNrrd (Переглянути профіль) 28 квітня 2013 р. 19:01:15

tommjames:As soon as I read "Mia partopreno en la kongreso kondiĉas.." I immediately assumed he was saying "My attendance is conditional on..". I took the following parts to be the condition.
That is also how I read it.

Rugxdoma (Переглянути профіль) 28 квітня 2013 р. 20:36:32

jkph00:
Although I as a native speaker of English also misread it because of my unthinking imposition of an expected word order, I certainly agree that you are right. The location of the accusative case makes all the difference.

I wonder if native speakers of other languages made the same unthinking mistake? Anyone?
When I read the thread I was quite surprised to notice that many native speakers of English had difficulties in understanding a sentence which seemed so clear to me. I think it was my first time that my poor English gave me an advatage.

Oscar6283 (Переглянути профіль) 1 травня 2013 р. 03:29:03

The way I interpreted it was as an "only if" statement, where the attendence of the person's female friend is a necessary, but not necessarily sufficient, condition for the attendence of the person; as in if the female friend is attending, then the person might be attending, but if the female friend is not attending, then the person is guaranteed not attending.

Miland (Переглянути профіль) 9 травня 2013 р. 10:06:38

In the Wells dictionary, kondiĉi is defined as "stipulate". PIV 2005 has meti kiel kondiĉon, "to specify as a condition". Thus postuli, "demand", could be an equivalent.

In my view, therefore, Mia partopreno en la kongreso kondiĉas la partoprenon de mia amikino is not wrong; kondiĉi appears to be transitive, with the condition, la partopreno de mia amikino, being the object and so in the accusative.

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