robbkvasnak:When I was in Holland I tried speaking Dutch and the people there always answered me in British other than when I was with German friends and then the Dutch answered us in German even though we wanted to speak Dutch.

Not to get too far off-topic, but speaking from personal experience a lot has changed in the last couple of decades. Prior to the end of the Cold War, speaking English had certain political baggage associated with it -- the arrogant and/or ignorant American expecting other people to learn his language. For this reason alone it made a lot of sense to attempt to learn even a little bit of the "native language".

Now it seems that English has lost (almost) all of that baggage and non-native speakers of English are eager to use their knowledge of English wherever they can. Technological advances have also made it a lot easier to learn and be exposed to living English ... try learning a language when it's almost impossible to even get books/newspapers in it and are lucky to hear 30 minutes a day of static-filled shortwave broadcasts.

I've noticed that many people also seem offended if you insist on trying to speak their language with them -- it's almost as if you're insulting their English ability (which, frankly, is usually much better than any American's foreign language ability).

The net result is that (in my opinion) it's become much harder to get practice using a foreign language with native speakers, especially if they know you speak English.

That said, I've spent most of my life learning languages and worked professionally in them for many years, so any excuse to learn a language is sufficient justification for me

Veel succes!

Paul

Druif:I agree it's very difficult to let the Dutch (like me) speak their own language in front of foreigners. They just love speaking English and foreign languages in general. That is a big problem if you want to learn Dutch.

If I had to pick the most talented foreign-language learners, it would definitely be the Dutch.

Amike,

Paul

When I was in Holland I tried speaking Dutch and the people there always answered me in British other than when I was with German friends and then the Dutch answered us in German even though we wanted to speak Dutch.

For a long time, as an immigrant in Finland, I would be answered in English by most too. Then I noticed it all suddenly change, and realised the change was all about how confidently (relaxed) I spoke (even though I would make habitual mistakes).

pdenisowski:

robbkvasnak:When I was in Holland I tried speaking Dutch and the people there always answered me in British other than when I was with German friends and then the Dutch answered us in German even though we wanted to speak Dutch.

Not to get too far off-topic, but speaking from personal experience a lot has changed in the last couple of decades. Prior to the end of the Cold War, speaking English had certain political baggage associated with it -- the arrogant and/or ignorant American expecting other people to learn his language. For this reason alone it made a lot of sense to attempt to learn even a little bit of the "native language".

Now it seems that English has lost (almost) all of that baggage and non-native speakers of English are eager to use their knowledge of English wherever they can. Technological advances have also made it a lot easier to learn and be exposed to living English ... try learning a language when it's almost impossible to even get books/newspapers in it and are lucky to hear 30 minutes a day of static-filled shortwave broadcasts.

I've noticed that many people also seem offended if you insist on trying to speak their language with them -- it's almost as if you're insulting their English ability (which, frankly, is usually much better than any American's foreign language ability).

The net result is that (in my opinion) it's become much harder to get practice using a foreign language with native speakers, especially if they know you speak English.

That said, I've spent most of my life learning languages and worked professionally in them for many years, so any excuse to learn a language is sufficient justification for me

Veel succes!

Paul

Dank u wel XD! You live in Raleigh? Wow, I live in NC too!

InsaneInter:

pdenisowski:Veel succes!

Dank u wel XD! You live in Raleigh? Wow, I live in NC too!

Wat een kleine wereld toch . I actually earned my MA in Germanic Languages from UNC-CH many years ago, and they may still offer some Dutch courses. In fact, the professor who taught advanced German grammar to the Germanic Lang grad students was Dutch, not German ...

Met vriendelijke groeten,

Paul

pdenisowski:

InsaneInter:

pdenisowski:Veel succes!

Dank u wel XD! You live in Raleigh? Wow, I live in NC too!

Wat een kleine wereld toch . I actually earned my MA in Germanic Languages from UNC-CH many years ago, and they may still offer some Dutch courses. In fact, the professor who taught advanced German grammar to the Germanic Lang grad students was Dutch, not German ...

Met vriendelijke groeten,

Paul

In my opinion I feel if Americans want to travail abroad wouldn't it be more of a waste of time not to learn a foreign language. I learned French first and some Spanish and Greek and to be able to learn them better I got into esperanto and with and already good command of French I learned Esperanto fast. I'm back trying Spanish again and have my Great Uncle and some of his Porto Rican children and Grand children helping me.

pdenisowski:

InsaneInter:

pdenisowski:Veel succes!

Dank u wel XD! You live in Raleigh? Wow, I live in NC too!

Wat een kleine wereld toch . I actually earned my MA in Germanic Languages from UNC-CH many years ago, and they may still offer some Dutch courses. In fact, the professor who taught advanced German grammar to the Germanic Lang grad students was Dutch, not German ...

Met vriendelijke groeten,

Paul

Kleine wereld, inderdaad XD. You went to CH?! Heel goed! I go to CPCC( heard of it, right)? Seems like you actually learned it. Most of us who learned Spanish didn't learn SHIT. The most complex sentence I can make is "Yo amo burritos y tacos!" XD. Tot zo!

InsaneInter:

pdenisowski:

InsaneInter:

pdenisowski:Veel succes!

Dank u wel XD! You live in Raleigh? Wow, I live in NC too!

Wat een kleine wereld toch . I actually earned my MA in Germanic Languages from UNC-CH many years ago, and they may still offer some Dutch courses. In fact, the professor who taught advanced German grammar to the Germanic Lang grad students was Dutch, not German ...

Met vriendelijke groeten,

Paul

Kleine wereld, inderdaad XD. You went to CH?! Heel goed! I go to CPCC( heard of it, right)? Seems like you actually learned it. Most of us who learned Spanish didn't learn SHIT. The most complex sentence I can make is "Yo amo burritos y tacos!" XD. Tot zo!

MA in Germanic Languages in '92 : you can read my thesis if you're interested. UNC-CH had a great Germanic Langs program for both literature and linguistics, but I haven't worked in languages professionally since the 1990s : I'm sure most of it is gone by now

Pity the internet was in its (text-only) infancy back then -- I think it's the single greatest resource for foreign language students ever. I envy all those students who never had the dubious pleasure of thumbing through dictionaries until the page edges turned dark

pdenisowski:

InsaneInter:

pdenisowski:

InsaneInter:

pdenisowski:Veel succes!

Dank u wel XD! You live in Raleigh? Wow, I live in NC too!

Wat een kleine wereld toch . I actually earned my MA in Germanic Languages from UNC-CH many years ago, and they may still offer some Dutch courses. In fact, the professor who taught advanced German grammar to the Germanic Lang grad students was Dutch, not German ...

Met vriendelijke groeten,

Paul

Kleine wereld, inderdaad XD. You went to CH?! Heel goed! I go to CPCC( heard of it, right)? Seems like you actually learned it. Most of us who learned Spanish didn't learn SHIT. The most complex sentence I can make is "Yo amo burritos y tacos!" XD. Tot zo!

MA in Germanic Languages in '92 : you can read my thesis if you're interested. UNC-CH had a great Germanic Langs program for both literature and linguistics, but I haven't worked in languages professionally since the 1990s : I'm sure most of it is gone by now

Pity the internet was in its (text-only) infancy back then -- I think it's the single greatest resource for foreign language students ever. I envy all those students who never had the dubious pleasure of thumbing through dictionaries until the page edges turned dark

So THAT'S what a thesis looks like! Good job! Actually, CH still has it. It's here:
http://gsll.unc.edu/
I like dictionaries of specific subjects. Psychology dicts. are so cool XD! I have a Eng.-Span. dict. at home.

brianpribis:I used to spend time trying to justify languages I was learning. How many spoke it? How likely was I to use it? I especially wanted to be ready with a rational for people who asked why I was learning it. I finally gave up. I decided to learn because I wanted to and that was it. Not to say there aren't valid "practical" reasons for learning a particular language (job, trips, family, etc), but sometimes you just gotta learn because YOU want to. End of story.

Of course, I don't just pick up a language and say, "hmmm, sounds like fun, I think I'll learn it today". I still want to be able to use the language. For example, I keep plugging away at German because there are a lot of theological books in that language and I want to read those books in their original form. Esperanto? It is unique, has a very cool history and an amazing user base. The atmosphere is so relaxed and enjoyable too. Plus, because it is so new, it's culture is still developing and, at least to me, unlike any culture in the world. That's exciting!

My feeling is if you don't have a vested interest in learning a language, even if you have super practical reasons for learning it, it will be a constant struggle and, in the end, probably useless. If you want to learn it, and you enjoy it and have fun at it, then it can never be useless. Even if you were the only person in the world to speak it.

This is awesome!

I stopped studying Esperanto last summer because I had trouble justifying to myself how useful it is for me. I mean, I don't plan on going to any congresses or club meetings or anything anytime soon. But Esperanto wouldn't be any less useful than Portuguese, a language I started studying in place of EO. I don't plan on going to Portugal or Brazil anytime soon. But I do like the sound of Portuguese, Brazilian music, futebol, etc., and there is a Brazilian expat community here in Japan that I could talk to, if I get an opportunity. So I am enjoying Portuguese, and I don't see it as a waste of time. I like the language; it's fun.

Likewise (and yeah, this is a bit off topic), I'm currently wondering if I should start studying EO again, because it's fun and a cool language.