Tin nhắn: 25
Nội dung: English
hercxjo (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 01:32:58 Ngày 03 tháng 7 năm 2013
- I am not supposed to eat too much salt.
- He is not supposed to be there.
- You were not supposed to say that to him!
- I guess I am not meant to be judo champion this year.
- You broke up with her? Oh well, I guess it was not meant to be.
WeekzGod (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 03:30:26 Ngày 03 tháng 7 năm 2013
I personally would say "ne rajtis" meaning "don't have the right"
Mi ne rajtas manĝegi (de) salo.
Note: I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate direct object identifier that is -n so I don't use it ever.
Tempodivalse (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 03:59:24 Ngày 03 tháng 7 năm 2013
WeekzGod:Note: I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate direct object identifier that is -n so I don't use it ever.I don't know how much experience you have with Esperanto, but I can guarantee you that it will be very difficult to express any serious sentences without direct objects! What is so bad about the accusative case, anyway?
. . .
Anyway, "I am not supposed to ..." usually can be translated successfully into EO as: "mi ne [verb]u", whenever the literal meaning is "I should not".
- I am not supposed to eat too much salt.I'd offer the following translations:
- He is not supposed to be there.
- "Mi ne mangxu tro da salo."
- "Li ne estu tie."
- You were not supposed to say that to him!These are trickier, because they are not in the present case, and the meaning differs. My suggestions:
- I guess I am not meant to be judo champion this year.
- You broke up with her? Oh well, I guess it was not meant to be.
- "Vi ne havis neceson diri tion al li!" (literally, "You did not have an necessity to say that to him". Contrast this to "Vi ne diru tion al li!", which implies present tense, i.e. "You shouldn't say that to him". )
- "Eble ne estis mia sorto/destino igxi la jxudcxampiono cxi-jare." ("Perhaps it was not my destiny/fate to become ..." )
- "Cxu vi disiris for de sxi? Nu, versxajne tio ne estis via destino." ("Well, probably that was not your fate ..." )
I personally would say "ne rajtis" meaning "don't have the right"Possible for some legal contexts maybe, but "rajti" would sound very stiff and unnatural for normal usage, just as it would in English.
[EDIT: Sorry for all the Xs, I'm not sure why the automatic cirkumfleksilo isn't working.]
PS: hint: whenever I want to find out "what's a good way to translate English phrase X into Esperanto", I find it helpful to find a suitable translation into a third language (Russian in my case), and using those two languages, arrive at an unambiguous Esperanto equivalent, rather than translating the English literally. English is quite idiomatic and literal translations often sound confusing in Esperanto. If you're multilingual, you can refer to your other language to balance out this setback of English.
hercxjo (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 05:25:58 Ngày 03 tháng 7 năm 2013
Tempodivalse:That's a good idea. The only other language in which I am at an intermediate level is Japanese, so I'll try going from English->Japanese->Esperanto and see how that works. If that doesn't work, I'll just wait until I get better at Portuguese, or better yet just keep reading Esperanto books and articles.
PS: hint: whenever I want to find out "what's a good way to translate English phrase X into Esperanto", I find it helpful to find a suitable translation into a third language (Russian in my case), and using those two languages, arrive at an unambiguous Esperanto equivalent, rather than translating the English literally. English is quite idiomatic and literal translations often sound confusing in Esperanto. If you're multilingual, you can refer to your other language to balance out this setback of English.
Aside from that, your explanations were quite helpful. Thank you very much!
noelekim (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 06:33:21 Ngày 03 tháng 7 năm 2013
hercxjo:How would one say "I am not supposed to..." or "I am not meant to..." in Esperanto? For example ...For "not supposed to do something" I use "devus ne ..i" (ought not to); and for "not meant to be", "ne ... destinita" (not destined). So ...
I am not supposed to eat too much salt.
Mi devus ne manĝi tro da salo
He is not supposed to be there.
Li devus ne esti tie.
You were not supposed to say that to him! - Vi estus devinta ne diri (ought not to have said) tion al li!
I guess I am not meant to be judo champion this year.
Ŝajne, mi ne estas destinita fariĝi la ĵudo-ĉampiono ĉi-jare.
You broke up with her? Oh well, I guess it was not meant to be.
Vi rompis kun ŝi? Nu, ŝajne ne estis destinite.
Kirilo81 (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 07:21:00 Ngày 03 tháng 7 năm 2013
WeekzGod:Note: I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate direct object identifier that is -n so I don't use it ever.I . . . English verbs, so I .n't . them ever.
Miland (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 07:22:09 Ngày 03 tháng 7 năm 2013
hercxjo:How would one say "I am not supposed to..." or "I am not meant to..." in Esperanto?The problem is that there's no exact equivalent of the English word "should" in Esperanto, although devus is often used as an approximation (or devintus for "should have" ).
Sometimes you might try expressing the meaning without the word "should", and then translate the result. For example the second and third of your examples could be respectively Li ne rajtas esti tie and Vi ne rajtis diri tion al li.
erinja (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 11:04:53 Ngày 03 tháng 7 năm 2013
Ĉu mi rajtas helpi? May I help? I might say this as a guest in someone's home.
It perhaps starts sounding a little formal when you start with "ne rajtas". I'd expect a negative answer to my question above to be "Ne, mi ne bezonas tion. Dankon!" and not "Ne, vi ne rajtas helpi".
rajti makes it polite to ask if you can do something
sudanglo (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 12:59:28 Ngày 03 tháng 7 năm 2013
The idea behind 'not supposed to' seems to be that according to some prescription (unspecified) something shouldn't be.
He is not supposed to be there. Li ne devus esti tie. La afero estas, ke li ne devus esti tie. Li ne devis esti tie. Devige li ne estu tie. Laŭ-deve li ne estu tie. But none of these are entirely satisfactory. The last one seems closest.
A case could be made for a neologism. Perhaps 'cenzita', borrowed from French.
For 'meant to' you could use 'destinita esti'.
Tempodivalse (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 14:51:59 Ngày 03 tháng 7 năm 2013
erinja:I regularly use "rajtas" in normal Esperanto, I don't think it sounds stiff or formal at all. I use it for 'may' or 'to be allowed'.Fair enough. Perhaps I haven't been exposed to enough real-world Esperanto (Vikipedio, Lernu, and IRC don't cover 100% of possible life situations!). But in your example, I would very likely have said "Cxu mi povas/povus helpi?" instead. This would be a close approximation of the Russian mogu li ja vam pomoch'?, English Can/could I help?. In other words, "Is it possible for me to make myself helpful . . ." rather than "Do I have the authority to help . . ." But I can now understand better the reasoning for "rajti", perhaps it sounded strange to me because you wouldn't normally express yourself this way in any of the other languages I'm familiar with.
Ĉu mi rajtas helpi? May I help? I might say this as a guest in someone's home.
It perhaps starts sounding a little formal when you start with "ne rajtas". I'd expect a negative answer to my question above to be "Ne, mi ne bezonas tion. Dankon!" and not "Ne, vi ne rajtas helpi".