Al la enhavo

ŝranko - what is it?

de erinja, 2013-julio-18

Mesaĝoj: 39

Lingvo: English

Chainy (Montri la profilon) 2013-julio-21 13:19:51

erinja:We just have a large coffee table (box, wardrobe, booth, TV stand, cabinet) show up in the room, and before we know what it is, we are calling it a ...[box, wardrobe, booth, cabinet, TV stand, coffee table].
In the story, this big time-machine thing must look like some real item of furniture. So which item of furniture? If it looks like a wardrobe, then call it that. If you prefer the word 'cabinet', then very good. I don't think this would be too disturbing for speakers of British English, as 'cabinet' can refer to big items of furniture like that silver thing you link to (Filing cabinet etc...).

However, I don't think that it's absolutely necessary to translate 'ŝranko' in all instances with the same word.

Chainy (Montri la profilon) 2013-julio-21 13:35:50

erinja:It is, in fact, a ŝranko even if it is also a time machine. It isn't a wardrobe if it is a time machine, it is simply a box that has the form factor of a wardrobe.

So in other words, you could say without a problem that a ŝranko appears in a room because this is what the time machine actually is, but you couldn't say that a wardrobe appears in a room, because it isn't a wardrobe, it only has the vague shape of one.
I know what you're getting at here, but I think you're being far too analytical and fussy about the semantics. Ok, so even if we know that something is a time machine, we can still say that it's a ŝranko as this word has a more general meaning than 'wardrobe'. But, if the time machine looked like a wardrobe at first sight, then it will presumably continue to appear as such even when we realise that it is indeed a time machine.

Again, regarding your suggested use of just one word to translate all instances of ŝranko. As I said, I don't think this is necessary - in any case, it might still be confusing to the reader that at first 'ŝranko' is being used to describe a whole item (the time machine in the guise of some item of furniture), and then later it is used to describe only a part of an item of furniture (the storage compartment of the table). This is the fundamental reason for any possible misunderstanding, not the fact that various English words can be used to translate 'ŝranko'.

Chainy (Montri la profilon) 2013-julio-21 14:05:59

pdenisowski:To me a "ŝranko" is something that could (perhaps with difficulty or after dismounting it) be moved from place to place, not a cavity inside another object.
Good point. I wonder if it is indeed ok to use 'ŝranko' to refer to a storage compartment within an item of furniture? Both ReVo and PIV only mention examples where it is a whole item of furniture in itself.

matrix (Montri la profilon) 2013-julio-22 02:20:33

Chainy:
pdenisowski:To me a "ŝranko" is something that could (perhaps with difficulty or after dismounting it) be moved from place to place, not a cavity inside another object.
Good point. I wonder if it is indeed ok to use 'ŝranko' to refer to a storage compartment within an item of furniture? Both ReVo and PIV only mention examples where it is a whole item of furniture in itself.
Indeed, ŝranko is only a piece of furniture — not a part of a piece of furniture. So, ŝranko may not be used in this meaning, whereas fako could be instead.

In PIV fako 1.: “Aparta dividaĵo de kesto, tirkesto ks, difinita por enteni aĵojn, kiujn oni ne volas intermiksi: fako de skribotablo, de ŝranko; fako por respondotaj korespondaĵoj; diversaj fakoj por la iloj de meblofaristo.”

erinja:The Esperanto says, open the door of a ŝranko in the table to pull out food
I do think that fako would be the right word in this particular case.

kefga_x (Montri la profilon) 2013-julio-22 03:46:08

I like Chainy's suggestion of storage compartment. It has the added bonus of sounding like something you'd read in a sci-fi novel.

erinja (Montri la profilon) 2013-julio-22 10:40:16

Except for the small fact that it's not really a storage compartment, because the food is delivered there somehow. It isn't just kept there forever and ever.

You could call it a dispenser except that we are referring to the form factor of it (ŝranko, some kind of a box with a door) rather than to the function.

Chainy (Montri la profilon) 2013-julio-22 13:59:29

-----

JDnDorks (Montri la profilon) 2013-julio-22 21:54:04

erinja:Except for the small fact that it's not really a storage compartment, because the food is delivered there somehow. It isn't just kept there forever and ever.

You could call it a dispenser except that we are referring to the form factor of it (ŝranko, some kind of a box with a door) rather than to the function.
How about just "compartment"? It brings to mind, for me at least, a car's "glove compartment", which is a hole in the dash with a door on it.

I also want to say "hatch", which might not be the actual box, but it's what you'd actually interact with, putting things in and taking them out of the hatch.

Kristal (Montri la profilon) 2013-julio-23 01:56:32

I was reading the posts then I stopped to search computer images on: Pennsylvania-Dutch Shrank. I understand the Deutsch word is schrank. The images that I found in the search looked like trunk-chests with or without a hutch on them. I also found an image that looked like a free-standing clothes-closet. Since some of us in the U.S. use the word shrank for sxranko then why not simply call a sxranko a shrank? Or, just describe the appearance then name what it resembles: sxranko. As I think of the images and look at the Lernu! Vortaro Eo-English translation from sxranko into cupboard, sideboard, cabinet, closet; I see that it isn't merely England-English versus U.S.American-English, but it is at least also East-coast American versus West-coast and generational differences in the names that we use to describe our furniture. Nailed to the wall versus horizontal beneath hutch shelving versus free-standing vertical unit versus a niche in the wall space of a room separated from the rest of the room by a door; each of the translation choices called into my mind a completely different visual image; although shrank sounds like something in an antique-shop.

Reen al la supro