Mesaĝoj: 20
Lingvo: English
kittykmae (Montri la profilon) 2005-oktobro-19 06:36:08
The only trouble I'm having is pronouncing some of the letters. I'm mispronouncing the "r"--I'm not sure how to trill it. Can anyone help explain this to me?
Also, I can barely hear the difference between "h" and "ĥ." It sounds to me like there's kind of a puff or cough at the beginning of "ĥ," making it kind of harsher, but my attempt at it doesn't seem to make quite the same sound as the guy speaking the example alphabet. Is there a better way to think about it? (The explanation page only mentions the word "loch"--unfortunately, I'm American.)
I would really appreciate any help with these
Thank you very much! 
trojo (Montri la profilon) 2005-oktobro-19 18:31:56
Make sure though, that you pronounce Esperanto T's and D's as full alveolar stops, like the T in "top" and the D in "dump" respectively, even when they fall between two vowels (inotherwords don't give in to American lazy-speech where for example "waiting" and "wading" sound exactly alike) . As long as your Esperantic pronounciation of aro, ado, ato, and alo are clearly distinct, you are doing fine.
You are also allowed to trill an Esperanto R instead of just tapping (like in those old advertisements "R-r-r-ruffles have R-r-r-ridges"), but having listened to many hours of MP3's on RadioArkivo.org its seems hardly anyone actually does that.
The letter Ĥ doesn't really have a corresponding sound in English (though it did in centuries past). It's formed at the same place in the mouth where you form the letter K, but whereas K is a stop, Ĥ is a "fricative" -- you don't quite close off the flow of air, making a kind of frictiony noise (other fricatives formed at other points in the mouth include S, Ŝ, Z, F, V, etc). Ĥ kinda reminds me of the loogey-hawking sound.
kittykmae (Montri la profilon) 2005-oktobro-20 19:56:17
I'll have to keep practicing the ĥ, I guess.
Jhoanna (Montri la profilon) 2005-novembro-23 19:14:18
The letter r is a little difficult to explain in the standpoint of an English speaker because of how Modern English is spoken today; the best way I can describe it is how it is pronounced in a language such as Spanish. The sound is "trilled," meaning that the tongue touches the back of the teeth, and sounds almost like the letter l (which explains why the Spanish say "arbol" for tree, which came from Latin "arbor", because the sound of their r is so similar to their l). It may be better described as a cross between the l sound and the American d sound. Maybe listen to one who speaks Spanish and try to imitate the r sound that you hear. The r in Esperanto has the same sound as in Spanish.
As for the letter ĥ, this is a little bit easier for me to explain. This sound is the same sound as the German "ch" in words like "nicht" or the exclamation "ach!" This is the sound at the end of the syllable. I think the reason this sound is hard to pronounce for English speakers is because Esperanto uses the sound at the beginning of syllables. The only other language I can think of where the ĥ sound occurs at the beginning of a syllable is Greek. Perhaps practice saying the German words "nicht," "ach!" and any other German word you know that contains "ch" in it because that is the sound you want to reproduce.
I really hope that this helps at least a little bit.
Jhoanna
Franck (Montri la profilon) 2005-novembro-24 12:11:43
You're right when you explain that the letter "r" is pronounced as in Spanish. I would say that this is the commun pronounciation in esperanto, although the french pronounciation of "r" is also possible.
But your example for the "ĥ" is not correct, for the pronounciation of "nicht" and "ach" (as in "Nacht" (nokto)) in german are not the same, except, perhaps, in some german places where the accent is different. The "ch" in the german "Nacht" is actually the equivalent for the "ĥ". There is no equivalent in esperanto for the german "ch" in "nicht" or in the famous "ich liebe dich", which is as soft and delicate as "Nacht" can sound hard.
The soft sound of "ch" in german occurs when these letters are preceded by the vowel "e", "i", "ä", "ö", "ü".
The hard sound occurs when they are preceded by the vowels "a", "o", "u". This "hard" sound corresponds to the "ĥ".
Please, if any German reads me and disagree, correct my answer !
Anyway, there is no better method to learn pronounciation than listen to and repeat any good example, spoken by good speakers. The technical explanations about how to put the tongue etc is hardly effective.
Be my english not too bad !
Ĝis !
scottish_chic (Montri la profilon) 2006-septembro-14 17:15:56
Try saying something like 'Ach, the weather is warm and Im stuck beside the loch' (but pronounced 'Auch, the withur iz waurm an Am stuch biside the loch', but with 'ch' pronounced like 'Hx' and strong 'r' sounds.)
However dont ever try it in front of an actual Scottish person lol.
Hope I could help
Caitlín x
el_edu (Montri la profilon) 2006-septembro-14 19:32:33
kittykmae:I'll have to keep practicing the ĥ, I guess.Another idea: Ĥ and K sounds are very similar. K is voiceless velar plosive and Ĥ is voiceless velar fricative. That means that the position of the tongue is the same. Simply try to pronounce a very long KKKKKK... and, maintaining the position of your tongue, blow. The sound is produced by the air passing between the tongue and the soft palate.
Editing... In the wikipedia article you'll find a very useful sound sample. You could even record your own voice and compare.
Good luck!
RiotNrrd (Montri la profilon) 2006-septembro-15 01:58:25
The only other language I can think of where the ĥ sound occurs at the beginning of a syllable is Greek.The Dutch "g" is pronounced more or less that way, and there are TONS of Dutch words that start with "g". I personally don't speak Dutch, but my mom was from there, so I've heard it spoken quite a bit in my youth.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2006-septembro-15 04:00:58
RiotNrrd:Yiddish, Hebrew, and Arabic, too. And I'm assuming many others.The only other language I can think of where the ĥ sound occurs at the beginning of a syllable is Greek.The Dutch "g" is pronounced more or less that way, and there are TONS of Dutch words that start with "g". I personally don't speak Dutch, but my mom was from there, so I've heard it spoken quite a bit in my youth.
erinja (Montri la profilon) 2006-septembro-15 04:12:26
Franck:Dear Jhoanna,This is a little misleading. Although a pronunciation somewhat like the Italian r is "suggested", it is not actually wrong to pronounce the r however you feel like pronouncing it. So speaking most technically, you pronouncing it like in English is equally as correct as pronouncing it like in French, and equally as correct as pronouncing it like in Italian/Spanish/whatever.
You're right when you explain that the letter "r" is pronounced as in Spanish. I would say that this is the commun pronounciation in esperanto, although the french pronounciation of "r" is also possible.
So although it sounds horrible and ugly when someone speaks Esperanto with a strong English R - that person is not wrong. And someone speaking with a strong French R is also not wrong. Or with a strong German R.
However - strong however - it is considered preferable to speak in such a way that the listener can't tell what country you come from. So while an American, French, or German R is not wrong, they are identifiably American, French, or German, so they are to be avoided.