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Is there a difference between "lap" and "knees"?

de Lukasz23051982, 18 septembrie 2013

Contribuții/Mesaje: 31

Limbă: English

Lukasz23051982 (Arată profil) 18 septembrie 2013, 20:21:22

Hello!
Is there a difference between "lap" and "knees"? Can we translate them indifferently in Esperanto?
Thanks in advance!

RiotNrrd (Arată profil) 18 septembrie 2013, 20:52:24

The CEED gives sino for lap (of a sitting person), and genuo for knee.

Later: and now the Lernu vortaro reflects that, although sino also (according to the CEED) appears to translate as bosom, which the vortaro already had for sino. Bosom and lap don't seem (to me) to be the same thing, but that's what the semi-official* sources seem to say.

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* At least, the sources other than my own opinion. The CEED is not universally accepted, however, although many, many people use it quite happily.

michaleo (Arată profil) 18 septembrie 2013, 20:53:45

Lukasz23051982:Hello!
Is there a difference between "lap" and "knees"? Can we translate them indifferently in Esperanto?
Thanks in advance!
Obydwa słowa w języku polskim tłumaczy się jako kolana. Z tym, że słowo lap oznacza tak naprawdę miejsce na którym siadają dzieci albo kładzie się laptopa. Natomiast knee to po prostu anatomiczna część ciała - kolano jako część nogi.

Both words are translated into Polish as kolana. But the word lap means actually place where children sits or where you can put a laptop. "Knee" is the part of a leg.

lap - femuroj - uda
knees - genuoj - kolana

pdenisowski (Arată profil) 19 septembrie 2013, 00:50:04

Lukasz23051982:Is there a difference between "lap" and "knees"?
Yes -- there's a big difference between skinning your knee and skinning your lap. ridulo.gif

pdenisowski (Arată profil) 19 septembrie 2013, 01:05:47

michaleo:Obydwa słowa w języku polskim tłumaczy się jako kolana. Z tym, że słowo lap oznacza tak naprawdę miejsce na którym siadają dzieci albo kładzie się laptopa. Natomiast knee to po prostu anatomiczna część ciała - kolano jako część nogi.

Both words are translated into Polish as kolana. But the word lap means actually place where children sits or where you can put a laptop. "Knee" is the part of a leg.

lap - femuroj - uda
knees - genuoj - kolana
Przykro mi, but I'm not quite sure I agree with that description of the Polish word for "lap". The expression "siedzić u kogoś na kolanach" or "siedzić komuś na kolanach" means "to sit on someone's knees" which is how the concept of "sitting in someone's lap" is commonly expressed in Polish.

There is another, less common word "podołek" but this means more like "lap of a garment", e.g. "nieść coś w podołku" - to carry something in one's lap or "w podołku sukni swej" -- in the lap of one's dress. You could run with something in your podołek, whereas you definitely can't run with something in your "lap" as the word is commonly used in English.

By itself, the word "kolano" simply means "knee" and I think it's dangerous to claim that it also means "lap" in Polish. As for "udo" it simply means thigh, not lap, and I'm not personally aware of "udo" being used idiomatically to mean lap.

Sorry, but they are very different words, both in English and in Polish.

Amike,

Paul

RiotNrrd (Arată profil) 19 septembrie 2013, 01:06:18

ReVo confirms that sino is a lap, although, honestly, they have a really broad interpretation of lap. And, according to them, sino does also mean bosom. Basically, it appears to cover anything from around your thighs to just below your neck somewhere. Man. But, that's what ReVo says.

Oddly, the old Wells dictionary gives genuoj for lap. To me, that's pretty debatable. Your knees are at one end of your lap, sure, but they certainly don't constitute the whole thing.

pdenisowski (Arată profil) 19 septembrie 2013, 02:42:07

RiotNrrd:Oddly, the old Wells dictionary gives genuoj for lap. To me, that's pretty debatable. Your knees are at one end of your lap, sure, but they certainly don't constitute the whole thing.
Again, the issue here is that a number of languages (like Polish) don't have a word that directly corresponds to the English word "lap" and instead use idioms that involve the knees.

Polish : siedzić u kogoś na kolanach (to sit on someone's knees)
Russian : сидеть на коленях у кого (to sit on someone's knees)
French : s'asseoir sur les genoux (to sit on someone's knees)
Italian : sedersi sulle ginocchia di (to sit one someone's knees)
etc.

Even the Japanese use the word "knee" in their expression for "lap" (膝に乗せる - hiza ni noseru)

Unfortunately, looking up the word "lap" in many dictionaries for these languages will yield the headword "knee", and many people will stop there instead of reading the entire definition.

There are languages that have the concept of "lap" in them (e.g. German Schoß), but it seems that the use of "on sb's knees" for "lap" is pretty widespread.

Amike,
Paul

RiotNrrd (Arată profil) 19 septembrie 2013, 02:49:43

Your lap is just the tops of your thighs, but specifically only when you're sitting down and when your thighs are both next to one another and horizontally parallel.

You mean not every language has a word for that? ridulo.gif

It's like the word for the backs of your hands when they're held outstretched, but only when angled into a "V" formation, and only when the index fingers are extended just slightly further than the other fingers. Like the word for that. Actually, I'm drawing a blank on it at the moment, but I'm sure the word will come to me. Anyway, certainly all languages have a word for that. It's practically the same principle.

RiotNrrd (Arată profil) 19 septembrie 2013, 03:07:51

It just seems somewhat comical to me to think of the knees as joined to the hip.

I don't deny that expressions equating the knees and the lap exist - I'm sure they do. It just puts an odd image in my head, since, as an American, I put the knees very far from the hip. Yet, some part of my lap is definitely joined to my hip, and if my lap is my knees...

One of those language collision points, I guess.

Nile (Arată profil) 19 septembrie 2013, 03:18:17

I think if the lap as everything from your knees to your thighs up to your hips.
But only on top.

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