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"Eternal Beginner"?

od Moosader, 18. oktober 2013

Sporočila: 23

Jezik: English

Moosader (Prikaži profil) 18. oktober 2013 17:31:15

I see the term "Eternal Beginner" / Eterna komencanto used in various places, and I was wondering what exactly it means; is it just when people begin learning and eventually stop progressing?

I saw this thread, and I'm always compiling a list of media in Esperanto, but there just isn't much. I would really appreciate being able to watch more TV programs in EO, where you can see what is going on, as well as hearing the dialog - it seems like the best approach, over only reading or only listening to podcasts.

Is this just such a common term because a lot of people get stuck once they get to a point where they understand some of Esperanto, but never become truly fluent? (such as, I have to spend about a second per word in Esperanto in order to read something).

erinja (Prikaži profil) 18. oktober 2013 18:44:40

It's someone who has been involved for Esperanto for a long time (usually years), well past the point where you'd assume the person would have a decent intermediate knowledge if not fluency, and who can barely stammer out a sentence. With such a person, you ask when they started learning, and you might expect an answer of "a few months ago" based on their language level, and they tell you something like "10 years ago". It's not a hard and fixed rule but it's a definite "You know it when you see it" situation.

In most cases I think it's because the person hasn't put in the effort necessary to progress - in my opinion it's a failure of effort, not a failure of intelligence. They reach a point where they can string together a couple of words, then stop studying. They want to participate in the Esperanto community but no longer make the effort to actually learn the language to any degree.

Moosader (Prikaži profil) 18. oktober 2013 18:48:28

erinja: and you might expect an answer of "a few months ago" based on their language level, and they tell you something like "10 years ago". It's not a hard and fixed rule but it's a definite "You know it when you see it" situation.
Sounds like some 'programmers' I know, haha.

OK, so generally so long as you keep spending time trying to learn, you probably won't get stuck as an eterna komencanto...

noelekim (Prikaži profil) 19. oktober 2013 03:21:54

Moosader:
I saw this thread, and I'm always compiling a list of media in Esperanto, but there just isn't much. I would really appreciate being able to watch more TV programs in EO, where you can see what is going on, as well as hearing the dialog - it seems like the best approach, over only reading or only listening to podcasts.
You might like to bookmark this link to videos on YouTube indexed under 'Esperanto' and 'televido' uploaded within the last twelve months.

Especially worth a look in the current list is 'Insulo de la Rozoj', a documentary about the 'Respubliko de la Insulo de la Rozoj' that an Italian engineer attempted to set up in the 1960s.

sudanglo (Prikaži profil) 19. oktober 2013 10:51:38

It is a curious phenomenon la eterna komencanto. The expression, which describes a real phenomenon, is almost an Esperanto idiom.

Referring to someone's poor command of a foreign national language you are much more likely to say that his French German etc is atrocious.

Perhaps the essential difference is that it is not so difficult to advance from beginner to progresinto in Esperanto, but many people get naturally stuck at a low level in foreign national languages.

So not making this leap in Esperanto is a phenomenon that needs its own label.

PlaidMouse (Prikaži profil) 19. oktober 2013 11:52:46

I've got to work harder not to become an "eterna komencanto"! Thanks for bringing this phenomenon to light in a post.

Uridium (Prikaži profil) 19. oktober 2013 14:51:40

Unfortunately this phenomenos is something i saw also here in this website; you cannot imagine how many people here get inscribed 5-6 years ago and still have a very very basic Esperanto knowledge.

Of course registration in Lernu is free (in the meaning of absense of obbligation, not only economic), and i dont want to begin an "hunt" for discover these users, but i really cant understand why people engaged on something that dont want to accomplish (not that they cant, this is another issue).

Im not the best student in the world, also im very lazy sometimes, but when i decided inscribe me here i really wanted to learn Esperanto, i had to find for myself the motivation for begin this thing.

Of course the effort could be strong or weak, and also depend from the others duties that we can have day by day how much time we can dedicate at ours passions, but dont begin something if you dont want to finish.

People that had for few months the "Esperanto-modemoment" doesn't help the Esperanto movement, just falsely increase the statistic of Esperanto-talkers, so we will have a large amount of very basic esperantists that doenst help the spreading of the language and also they doenst help theyselves because they wasted time about a language that are not able to speak or use.

Eternaj komencantoj, se vi ne volas dauxrigi, ne komencu!

antoniomoya (Prikaži profil) 19. oktober 2013 16:44:30

Uridium:Eternaj komencantoj, se vi ne volas dauxrigi, ne komencu!
I repeat: Eternaj komencantoj, se vi NE volas daŭrigi, tute simple ne rekomencu! ridulo.gif

Amike.

bartlett22183 (Prikaži profil) 19. oktober 2013 18:18:13

Uridium:Unfortunately this phenomenos is something i saw also here in this website; you cannot imagine how many people here get inscribed 5-6 years ago and still have a very very basic Esperanto knowledge.

Of course registration in Lernu is free (in the meaning of absense of obbligation, not only economic), and i dont want to begin an "hunt" for discover these users, but i really cant understand why people engaged on something that dont want to accomplish (not that they cant, this is another issue).
Some individuals may frequent sites such as lernu! out of general interest in language and more specific interest in constructed international auxiliary languages, just as individuals have interests in various human activities. These interests do not mean that they will master any of the particular subjects. I am interested in philology and linguistics, but I am not a professional, for instance.

Ganove (Prikaži profil) 19. oktober 2013 18:48:50

Uridium:Unfortunately this phenomenos is something i saw also here in this website; you cannot imagine how many people here get inscribed 5-6 years ago and still have a very very basic Esperanto knowledge.

Of course registration in Lernu is free (in the meaning of absense of obbligation, not only economic), and i dont want to begin an "hunt" for discover these users, but i really cant understand why people engaged on something that dont want to accomplish (not that they cant, this is another issue).
Well, if you look at my profile, you could think that I am an "eterna komencanto", since I registered on here in 2008.
At that time, I really admired the idea of Esperanto. But then I had to set the course for my future, so I decided to focus on my final exams in school first. Unfortunately I lost sight of Esperanto afterwards and just encountered it again in 2012 when I was tidying the bookmarks of my internet browser.

Why do I write that? I don't feel offended, I don't have to justify myself. I just don't like - to put it mildly - biases.

I didn't write this message for me, but for those members among us, who encountered similar situations.

Actually when I came back to Lernu! in 2012, I thought about using this account or creating a new one in order to avoid certain situations. I decided not to evade them but to confront them. Evading usually doesn't solve problems.

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