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a couple of questions

by makis, December 13, 2013

Messages: 6

Language: English

makis (User's profile) December 13, 2013, 1:19:16 PM

1) frostujo/frostigilo - Are these the same? I'm inclined to think that frostujo is the actual freezer in your kitchen and frostigilo is a literal freez-er but I'm thinking they both mean the actual kitchen freezer?

2) ajn - When/how would one use this? Examples show it connected with a correlative and any examples I come up with have it connected with a correlative also. Is that the only case or can it be used elsewhere?

3) participles - I remember reading somewhere that only a few participles are used in practice but I don't remember where I read it or what those participles were. Is that true and if so, what are they? I know I see -ant- and -at- a lot.

4) obuso/kuglo - Do these represent the actual pieces or just colloquially "a bullet". i.e. is obuso the shell/brass (or mortar?) and kuglo the actual bullet/lead?

sudanglo (User's profile) December 13, 2013, 2:10:47 PM

I think the distinction between frostujo and frostigilo is perhaps that the frostujo is the storage compartment of the kitchen device and the frostigilo is the temperature lowering mechanism. However in the case of both frostujo and fridujo these terms can refer to the unit as a whole (ie freezer and fridge, respectively).

I have come across 'ajna' used without one of the k-words in sense of 'any'. The earliest usage in the Tekstaro is from the 1930's. But the hit count suggests it is a fairly modern usage.

Examples:

sen ajna risko;
pura akvo, kiu ne havas ajnan nutran valoron;
malakceptas ajnan kompromison

But to translate whoever or whenever, you would have to say kiu ajn or kiam ajn.

However much .., would be kiom ajn.

sudanglo (User's profile) December 13, 2013, 2:17:52 PM

It is certainly true that the compounds verb forms with esti -anta are relatively uncommon - particularly estas -anta, plain -as usually being sufficient.

But the adverbial usage is commonplace for -ante and -inte (less so for -onte)

makis (User's profile) December 13, 2013, 3:37:35 PM

sudanglo:plain -as usually being sufficient.
With the just the root or with the participle?

i.e.
Mi farantas kukon
Mi estas faranta kukon
Mi faras kukon

sudanglo:It is certainly true that the compounds verb forms with esti -anta are relatively uncommon - particularly estas -anta, plain -as usually being sufficient.

But the adverbial usage is commonplace for -ante and -inte (less so for -onte)
Do you have some examples? I can't think of a way to use an adverbial participle.

kaŝperanto (User's profile) December 13, 2013, 3:39:42 PM

sudanglo:It is certainly true that the compounds verb forms with esti -anta are relatively uncommon - particularly estas -anta, plain -as usually being sufficient.

But the adverbial usage is commonplace for -ante and -inte (less so for -onte)
It does seem that participles are used a lot more as adjectives or in adverb clauses than in the esti X-anta form: "Legante la ĵurnalon, mi aŭdis la kurantan knabon."

(4)
Whenever I come across words where the English-Eo translation is vague, I just switch it to Eo-Eo mode:

kuglo - malgranda peco de malmola metalo kun proksimume konusa formo, kiun oni elĵetas per ĉiaj porteblaj pafiloj
(a small piece of hard metal with an approximately conal shape, which one throws out by means of all kinds of portable firearms.)

obuso - cilindroforma kuglego kun ogiva pinto, plenigita de eksplodaĵo kaj kiun oni elpafas per kanono.
(a cylinder shaped large bullet with an ogive point, filled with explosive and which one shoots by means of a cannon.)

I would say "kuglo" is equivalent to "bullet", but "obuso" is definitely more along the lines of (artillery) "shell" than it is of "cartridge", which is "kartoĉo" and describes the fully assembled bullet+brass+powder+primer.

kaŝperanto (User's profile) December 13, 2013, 3:46:17 PM

makis:
sudanglo:plain -as usually being sufficient.
With the just the root or with the participle?

i.e.
Mi farantas kukon
Mi estas faranta kukon
Mi faras kukon

sudanglo:It is certainly true that the compounds verb forms with esti -anta are relatively uncommon - particularly estas -anta, plain -as usually being sufficient.

But the adverbial usage is commonplace for -ante and -inte (less so for -onte)
Do you have some examples? I can't think of a way to use an adverbial participle.
I think he meant with just the root. It is much more common to say "Mi kuras" for "I am running" than it is to say "Mi estas kuranta". You do also see a lot of the "Mi kurantas" shortened form.

See my previous response for an example of both adverbial/adjectival participles. The adverbal more follows the form where in English we would use a phrase like "While eating an apple, ", "Having eaten an apple, ", "About to eat an apple, " for the forms "Mangante pomon, ", "Manĝinte pomon, " and "Manĝonte pomon, ". The adjective forms are used as in english, like "running man", "laughing woman", etc.

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