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Clarification on this grammar point

by captainzhang, December 15, 2013

Messages: 28

Language: English

michaleo (User's profile) December 16, 2013, 12:31:46 PM

Simple, Ĵeti ovon en politikiston. Trafi politikiston per ovo

sudanglo (User's profile) December 16, 2013, 1:11:30 PM

Eble - lanĉi ovon kontraŭ politikiston. (kontraŭ -n has the nuance of attack)

Though I think most people would understand ĵeti pilkon al knabo as throwing to, and ĵeti ovon al politikisto as throwing at.

Nile (User's profile) December 16, 2013, 3:28:47 PM

yyaann:I like ale al. I have also just thought of the possibility of "Mi alĵetis la pilkon al la knabo". Since knaben seems too controversial I think knabdirekte would be clearer.
Using al- as a prefix changes the object, right? So "aljxeti pilkon" is "to throw (something) to the ball". Better would be "Mi aljxetis la knabon per la pilko.".

Duko (User's profile) December 16, 2013, 5:51:29 PM

I don't think that al- changes the object.
Mi donis monon.
Mi aldonis monon.
Still the same object.

Nile (User's profile) December 16, 2013, 6:06:32 PM

Oh, okay. I was just assuming it worked similarly to pri-, i suppose.
"Mi parolas pri io"="Mi priparolas ion"
kaj "Mi parolas al iu"="Mi alparolas iun"
sed "Mi jxetas al iu"=/="Mi aljxetas iun".

RiotNrrd (User's profile) December 17, 2013, 4:21:36 AM

It generally does work that way. Aldoni is one of the few words that are somewhat idiomatic. Eldoni is another one. They don't mean quite what their components suggest, but have instead acquired other, more nuanced, meanings.

aldoni = to add
eldoni = to publish

So that's something to watch for with these preposition-prefixed words. Usually they mean more or less what you think they mean. Here and there they don't. For that reason, I tend to avoid just creating them, myself (although that's not a 100% guarantee), unless I have to. If I'm talking about publishing something, for example, eldoni will come up. Otherwise, my own habit is to snap the preposition off and toss it into the sentence to fend for itself. You know. Usually.

But that's just me. And there's nothing wrong with a straightforward word like priparoli; many such words are very common and well established.

But when sticking common prepositions onto common roots, making a new word that you haven't seen before... sometimes "that word doesn't mean what you think it means". It's just something to keep in mind with that type of construction.

captainzhang (User's profile) December 20, 2013, 1:58:38 AM

Thanks for all the replies. though I was initially concerned with precision, I think that I'm just going with "Mi jxetis la pilkon al la knabo" and just let context take care of any nuance.

Also, I'm thinking about either continuing to add grammar questions like this to this thread or start another thread dedicated to discussing different contructions (sentences, phrases, metaphors, etc...) that I come up with in order to get feedback esp. from more experienced speakers.

Should I start another thread for this or just continue to use this one? Thanks.

RiotNrrd (User's profile) December 20, 2013, 2:21:13 AM

For a complete topic change, I would create a new thread. These threads don't go away; many times people will return to them for reference, etc., and it's easier to find what you are looking for if the threads are separated by topic.

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