so, sudangla, WHAT is an "uncouth underclass"? and why do you think that a particular class of people would produce filthy language? Maybe I am just going by what I have heard around me - maybe I belong to that uncouth class, since I can recall some unreaptable things (at least that I would not repeat here) during the last 24 hours - one of them was even published on TV here with little stars to fill in the letters in between, an utterance by a diplomat in reference to the European Union
And as for barlett's post, I would like to add that Chinese script offers the same advantage - maybe even better, while English pronunciations proliferate and the varied English written languages diverse in the Internet from each other ever more
I taught grades Kindergarten thru (yes, I know "through")fifth grade and experienced the problems that children born in the US have with spelling - and then teaching at THE university how poorly students articulated themselves in writing (that seems like an oxymoron, I know) - as compared to my time at the university in Frankfurt am Main and the writing there (in German) of my fellow students. Strange that the German-speaking countries and the Spanish-speaking countries can follow a more-or-less phonetic system while English-speaking countries can't..... mybe it's just "us uncouths" who don't get it.

Ni ne voli fari tio, samidean'

Certainly comic, Einja, I almost laughed out loud, but hardly representative of the speech of a foreigner of a particular nationality.

The whole issue here is the extent to which Esperanto has what the linguists call register. Chinaman, [offensive term removed] and chinese person all belong to different registers. If chinaman is actually offensive I stand reprimanded - though personally I think there is far too much political correctness around nowadays.

Putinaĉo - not bad, but I think the meaning is slut rather than bitch. Whether one would be please to be called a certain thing may well depend on the literal meaning rather the taboo-ness of the term. No man wants to be called stupid, or a woman ugly, for example.

One can clearly be rude in Esperanto. Being crude or vulgar through crude or vulgar language is something else.

Even on the eve of la fina venko it seems unlikely that Esperanto would have the same sort of register repertoire as the national languages. For that to develop would seem to require some sort of fina venko plus.

Seriously, no slurs in the forums. I don't care if you're only giving an example of a word you personally wouldn't use.

And I assure you that I have personally been both crude and vulgar in Esperanto, not simply rude. I won't repeat it here.

erinja:Seriously, no slurs in the forums. I don't care if you're only giving an example of a word you personally wouldn't use.

And I assure you that I have personally been both crude and vulgar in Esperanto, not simply rude. I won't repeat it here.

I'm shocked!

captainzhang:

spreecamper:

captainzhang:Does anyone know any patterns that one could recognize to help infer if a verb is transitive or intransitive? It's really the only aspect of Esperanto that I don't like, the accusative doesn't bother me at all, in fact, I think it's nice.

... I think I understand, are you saying to recognize trans/intrans verbs in context by whether or not they take a direct object? If so, what if the writer makes grammar mistakes and uses some trans verbs in intrans position and vice versa, would there be any way to distinguish them then?

Mulaik page 81; "... Transitive, intransitive and linking verbs

In English and Interlingua* there are three distinct classes of verbs: transitive verbs, intransitive verbs and linking verbs.

In a sentence a transitive verb is a verb that needs an object that it acts on to complete the meaning of the sentence. (I.e.) 'John hit' is incomplete because we expect an object of 'hit' and there is none. 'John hit the ball' forms a complete sentence. The 'ball' is the subject of the verb.

In a sentence an intransitive verb does not need an object to form a complete sentence. 'John walks fast'. 'Walk' is the verb and it does not need an object to complete its meaning. The verb characterizes the subject of the verb by indicating that it does something that does not effect anything else. Actions of the subject that do not act on other objects are expressed by intransitive verbs.

Some verbs are used both as transitive and intransitive verbs without changing their form. These are called 'ambitransitive' verbs. Examples are 'eat, run, read, break, understand: We eat our breakfast. We sit there and eat.

The third class of verbs are linking verbs. They do not express actions, but link subjects to nouns and adjectives providing more information about the subject. The primary linking verb is 'to be' and all its forms... Other verbs that sometime function as linking verbs are 'seem, appear, look, smell, feel, grow, remain, stay, turn, sound, become, prove: She seems preoccupied. George appears fatigued...

..."

* Ĉu in Esperanto, too?

bartlett22183:The Shavian alphabet and all other attempts at producing a phonemic spelling for English all suffer shipwreck on the same rock: Whose English???

Hhm. I assume that ones which Oxford and Cambridge promote accross Europe. The final Shaw alphabet was the winner of worldwide competition to design such an alphabet.

bartlett22183:English pronunciation most definitely is not.

I full agree. But I think its possible to develop a feeling how to pronounce it understandable more or less.

bartlett22183:Educated native speakers of various dialects of English can usually understand one another's speech (although sometimes it can be a stretch), but we have no trouble in writing.

I'm somewhat in doubt that dialects could have or form some strict orthography rules. At least German dialects are spoken variants of German language most only. Okay, in poetry there seems to excist some written 'Mundart'. But 9 year basic school are compulsatory in Germany (Schulpflicht). Primary school starts at year 6 or 7. Children before 6 learn to widening their consciousness, how to interact and maximum learn how to draw. I simply don't understand when there should be time to learn some written dialect ('Mundart' orthography) before primary school.

bartlett22183:If we use Shavian or any other phonemic scheme and then each of us phonemicizes his/her own dialect, we can have a big problem.

How I already wrote above. Written German dialect are very 'niche-like'.

Bruso:I've read that analysis of writings in the Deseret alphabet (used by some Mormons in the 19th century; it never really caught on) reveals that the Utah accent hasn't changed a lot in 150 years.

Thanks. I didn't know.