Sadržaj

Bildoj kaj Demandoj - course

od Bruso, 17. siječnja 2014.

Poruke: 15

Jezik: English

Bruso (Prikaz profila) 17. siječnja 2014. 00:57:50

Has anyone actually started as a rank beginner and learned from this? I can't imagine figuring out everything from the pictures if I were really starting from scratch. For example, the lesson with the flava banano and the bruna banano. I'd be inclined to think those words meant "fresh" and "rotten" from the pictures.

I've done 31 of the lessons in a couple evenings. I don't think I've actually learned any new words yet, but I'm unfluent enough that it's very good review. I've missed a few sentences by leaving or adding -n a few times. And a few to sloppy typing.

Despite the warning that the test sentences can't literally test for every variation, it's a bit frustrating to be marked wrong when I know it's right. For example, for "kio estas tio?" I answered "Tio estas unu virino". The answers accepted didn't include "unu" although unu, du and tri had been introduced in sentences of exactly that type. Grrrr .... But I've gotten 13/14 of 15 on every test.

So I'll continue. But I really don't think I could have gotten this far in this course as a rank beginner.

Aubright (Prikaz profila) 17. siječnja 2014. 01:58:01

I learned quite a lot from Bildoj kaj Demandoj, actually.
Sometimes the pictures would be a bit confusing, but all in all I think it's a pretty good course (though not perfect) that I would take again if I magically forgot every bit of the Esperanto that I know.

donar (Prikaz profila) 17. siječnja 2014. 08:03:30

Bruso:
for "kio estas tio?" I answered "Tio estas unu virino". The answers accepted didn't include "unu" although unu, du and tri had been introduced
"Tio estas unu virino" would mean "This is a woman" and not "... one woman". The unspecified article "a/an" doesn't exist in Esperanto. Literally you'd say "This is woman." "This is yellow ball." In the same manner you're saying "This is Ana/Petro."

I learnt quiet well how to write and read with bildoj kaj demandoj, but I completely failed in speaking and listening. You'll experience that when you finish the course and start the audiobook from the next level (Gerda malaperis). And I also did not understand when to put the object-ending -n and when not although a sentence has an object. But from those given free online courses this one was the best working one for me. Every one is learning differently, so try the other courses when you have troubles with bildoj kaj demandoj. Maybe your local Esperanto asocio can help you with the listening and speaking skills as they are organising some events or some free lectures about a specific topic (e.g. travelogue, cultural reports, etc.) I didn't try that at my early stage but I went to an Esperanto weekend meeting very early and found someone who helped me through my problematic points.

Bruso (Prikaz profila) 17. siječnja 2014. 10:05:02

donar:"Tio estas unu virino" would mean "This is a woman" and not "... one woman". The unspecified article "a/an" doesn't exist in Esperanto. Literally you'd say "This is woman."
I didn't think it meant "a woman". There had been a lesson with "Tio estas unu virino" and "tio estas du virinoj" and "tio estas tri virinoj" based on the pictures. I was responding based on that.

donar (Prikaz profila) 17. siječnja 2014. 11:11:21

Bruso:
donar:"Tio estas unu virino" would mean "This is a woman" and not "... one woman". The unspecified article "a/an" doesn't exist in Esperanto. Literally you'd say "This is woman."
I didn't think it meant "a woman". There had been a lesson with "Tio estas unu virino" and "tio estas du virinoj" and "tio estas tri virinoj" based on the pictures. I was responding based on that.
I see. In this case "unu" just emphases that it's about one single woman in distinction to two or three women.
Indeed, that leads (at least germanic and romance) speakers to confusings and the cours leaves the learner alone with his issue.
The custom, however, is to avoid "unu" when it's possible (although it should be clear that the number is meant because the undefined article doesn't exist at all...^^)

sudanglo (Prikaz profila) 17. siječnja 2014. 12:02:30

I suppose the problem is that you have to work out what the test-setter is trying to test.

Tio estas unu virino is, of course, quite correct in another context where number is relevant.

In English we have both definite and indefinite articles whereas in Esperanto you have la and nothing. I saw a woman in the street running for the bus gets translated as Mi vidis virinon ....

But there is a usage in Esperanto where unu is not really to do with quantity and just mean a certain individual - sometimes this is rendered as 'one' in English.

Unu fraŭlino demandis, kio estas Esperantismo. One member of the audience asked ...

In a fairly tale you might say Unu vidvino havis du filinojn. But that would be best translated in English as there was a widow who had two daughters.

Was the woman in the picture very attractive? Maybe you can say in Esperanto Tio estas unu bela virino (one fine woman). There are some hits in the Tekstaro to suggest that usage is possible.

Edit: I see that NPIV marks the above usage as archaic. I am not convinced. (But then I have been around a long time.)

I would happily say Unu tagon kiam mi promenis en la arbaro - one day when I was walking in the woods. The suggested alternative would be Iun tagon kiam .... In any case nobody would just say Tagon kiam ...

Dakila_Sidhi (Prikaz profila) 17. siječnja 2014. 16:02:18

Bruso:Has anyone actually started as a rank beginner and learned from this?
Lol I guess it really just depends on people. Studying Bildoj kaj Demandoj was my first time learning a foreign language, and wow it was my favorite language learning course that I have ever taken. It was so fun which made learning Esperanto easy for me. I have even been recommending it to people, hoping that Bildoj kaj Demandoj would get them interested in Esperanto as it has for me, until unfortunately Lernu no longer makes any of the courses available for unregistered visitors. And now reading that you are having a difficult time with it, I see why, I guess Bildoj kaj Demandoj was just really my taste, but not really for others.

Bruso:I can't imagine figuring out everything from the pictures if I were really starting from scratch. For example, the lesson with the flava banano and the bruna banano. I'd be inclined to think those words meant "fresh" and "rotten" from the pictures. I've done 31 of the lessons in a couple evenings. I don't think I've actually learned any new words yet,
You are clicking the words right to see their meanings? When I was studying with the course, I always clicked new words, but I also made assumptions first. I thought the pictures were quite straightforward.

Bruso:Despite the warning that the test sentences can't literally test for every variation, it's a bit frustrating to be marked wrong when I know it's right. For example, for "kio estas tio?" I answered "Tio estas unu virino". The answers accepted didn't include "unu" although unu, du and tri had been introduced in sentences of exactly that type. Grrrr .... But I've gotten 13/14 of 15 on every test.
I didn't really have any problems with answering correct variations that the system did not recognize. I think you should just simply answer with what the course is relevantly asking for. Answering “Tio estas unu virino” is only relevant if you are emphasizing on the number, such as if the lesson is about numbers. In other cases, it is unnecessary for both Esperanto and English to say “That is one woman.”

Bruso:
donar:"Tio estas unu virino" would mean "This is a woman" and not "... one woman". The unspecified article "a/an" doesn't exist in Esperanto. Literally you'd say "This is woman."
I didn't think it meant "a woman". There had been a lesson with "Tio estas unu virino" and "tio estas du virinoj" and "tio estas tri virinoj" based on the pictures. I was responding based on that.
"Tio estas unu virino" would mean "That is one woman", but to make it simpler it does means "That is a woman". Perhaps in other examples you'd see "That is just one woman" can be said. In Esperanto, placing the article la would make it definite, while not putting it would make it indefinite. In both cases of Esperanto and English, it's unusual.

erinja (Prikaz profila) 17. siječnja 2014. 16:15:10

If you have problems with an "automatically corrected" course, then Ana Pana might be a better bet for you. Since it's corrected by a live person, "correct-but-not-expected" answers are better dealt with there.

Bruso (Prikaz profila) 17. siječnja 2014. 23:42:10

Dakila_Sidhi:You are clicking the words right to see their meanings?
In a picture course, that seemed like cheating to me. At any rate, that was a hypothetical problem I would have had if were truly a complete beginner. In the end, there was only one word I hadn't seen before (kontante, in the very last lesson)

erinja:If you have problems with an "automatically corrected" course, then Ana Pana might be a better bet for you. Since it's corrected by a live person, "correct-but-not-expected" answers are better dealt with there.
Too late, I've finished! Of course, I can still try Ana Pana. Supposedly it should be easy, but the review is good. I knew all the words but one in Bildoj, but I had to slowly think through a lot of sentences. I'm not fluent even with what I know.

erinja (Prikaz profila) 19. siječnja 2014. 00:12:56

Review is always good, and I think that even if it is completely review for you, you can make good use of Ana Pana by giving longer than necessary answers to the questions. There is always one free response question that asks you to talk about your life ("Tell about the best vacation you ever took", etc), and if you take that opportunity to give a detailed response, you can get really good feedback on any specific issues that pop up in your writing. Students who give a simple answer like "I went to my grandma's house" for that question are really losing out on the benefit of a live tutor. "I went to my grandma's house" is a sentence similar to what you find in Bildoj kaj demandoj, but you can get much more out of Ana Pana.

Natrag na vrh