Some questions about Structure and Expectations for learning Esperanto
от StevenGza, 27 января 2014 г.
Сообщений: 21
Язык: English
StevenGza (Показать профиль) 27 января 2014 г., 12:32:00
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I'm a student on a gap year, and I'd like to learn Esperanto.
I hope to manage this before learning French, and Latin-though probably not this year-, but that's neither here nor there.
My questions revolve around how I should structure my Esperanto learning, not so much "How do I begin?" - but how might I "Master Esperanto(become fluent)?" and what order should I follow to get there. This reads confusingly because I have a few questions and some hinge on others -
----- Relvant(possibly) facts about me -----
----- meant to help answer questions -----
- I started with Esperanto 5 days ago and I'm on chapter 7 of Gerda Malaperis(it's been challenging so far but I've been making good progress).
- I obtained an A for English in my final year of high school and have a good,firm grasp of English(well-read, widely-ready, eloquent).(also have sound academic skills)
- I am learning Esperanto partially for its touted propaedeutic effect, but also because I would like both, to travel with - and speak - Esperanto. I appreciate its utility and its ideals.
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What is a realistic level of Esperanto to shoot for in 6 months?(lots of time and dedication) Should I aim for A,B,C exams? Would reading the whole of Gerda Malaperis be enough for the A course?
Does it take years to develop proper fluency and style in Esperanto?*
How might I find a way to practice speaking Esperanto to live people?(I want to be able to speak Esperanto as well)
How much/what level of Esperanto would reap the propaedeutic effect of it? Which level would you recommend I reach before beginning my second foreign language(French)?*
From what preposterously little I know, Esperanto doesn't have a set sentence order - does it?(Afrikaans,for example, has STOMPI or Subject,Verb1,Time,Object,Manner,Place,Verb 2,Infinitive - which works for words,phrases and clauses)
Is it common or frowned upon that people speak through a filter of Esperanto?(as in, they translate turns of phrase that are say English or Chinese into klunky, unstylish Esperanto)*
Do you have any warnings for me as I try to go from rough intermediate onto a higher level?*[/list]PS: I don't really expect any one person to read and answer everything, but I am grateful for the effort and replies I get. Thanks so,so much for all your assistance and honesty
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*Some of these questions might require someone who is extra knowledgeable,so if you don't feel confident in your answers then please say so(I am just starting and thus liable to take anything as fact - I am asking because its too early for me to know but it might help on this road). You can ask if you need extra information to answer a question.
StevenGza (Показать профиль) 27 января 2014 г., 12:34:10
willem44 (Показать профиль) 27 января 2014 г., 14:10:50
Now I think I am more or less capable to read and write in Esperanto.
Esperanto indeed shares a lot of vocabulary with French, and in general learning it might help develop some interlinguistic intuition. For example, a French word for "apple" is "la pomme", whereas Esperanto normalizes it in its own standard and thus it is "pomo". Also it uses a lot of words of German origin.
I think that is very individual, it might work for some people and might not for others. There is no absolute (universal) recipe.
Bruso (Показать профиль) 27 января 2014 г., 14:48:08
StevenGza: From what preposterously little I know, Esperanto doesn't have a set sentence order - does it?(Afrikaans,for example, has STOMPI or Subject,Verb1,Time,Object,Manner,Place,Verb 2,Infinitive - which works for words,phrases and clauses)Is Afrikaans your first language? It might help you understand Esperanto agglutination. For example, in Esperanto and Afrikaans there's no mystery where the words "vortaro" and "woordeboek" come from. In English - well, "dictionary" is a word unto itself unless one is well-versed in Latin.
Rikat (Показать профиль) 27 января 2014 г., 15:25:40
kaŝperanto (Показать профиль) 27 января 2014 г., 15:49:33
After six months of hard study you should easily have the grammar almost mastered. I would also aim to master every official affix, because that will help you expand a limited vocabulary. I would also study the prepositions, such as almenaŭ, apenaŭ, ĉirkaŭ, apud, ĉe, sub, sur, super, ktp. (at least, hardly, around, next to, at, beneath, on, over, etc.), since they are used quite frequently. The table words are also important to study, and they are fairly logically constructed (kio, tio, ĉio, io, nenio, ...).
Vocabulary is probably the most limiting factor in learning Esperanto, but knowing the affixes will help you multiply your vocabulary.
I would say the propaedeutic effect would be most gathered from learning the grammar and general structure of Esperanto. I myself learned Spanish in school before coming to Esperanto, and its structure is very similar to Esperanto and helped me learn it much more quickly (it's similar but much simpler). I'm sure the effect works in the other direction even more. I know no French, but it is related to Spanish, and you would certainly benefit from knowing Esperanto.
Esperanto tends to follow SVO (subject verb object) order like English, but it is flexible as you say. Sometimes word order does matter, though. Generally non SVO forms generate an emphasis on a particular word or phrase.
I would say it is frowned upon to translate word-for-word from any language into Esperanto, and most of the time it will make what you say unintelligible to many people if they do not speak the language you are translating from. I also recommend being very careful about using dictionaries, because in languages like English some words have many meanings depending on context, but in Esperanto there are separate words for each meaning. The dictionary at vortaro.net is very useful when you need to be certain of a meaning, since it defines the words in Esperanto.
sudanglo (Показать профиль) 27 января 2014 г., 15:53:01
What is a realistic level of Esperanto to shoot for in 6 months?(lots of time and dedication)I would expect you to be able to read texts in Esperanto on a wide variety of subjects without too much difficulty - just occasionally having to look things up in the dictionary. I would be surprised if you couldn't get a pass mark, or very nearly a pass mark in the C exam on this site at the end of this period.
I would also expect you then to be able to follow a conversation in Esperanto between 'spertuloj' (experienced Esperantists). However being able to join in the conversation other than in halting manner, I would judge requires at least two to three weeks of total immersion - such as you might encounter at an Esperanto congress, assuming you had little opportunity to practise speaking during the 6 months
Acquiring fluency in speech is the hardest thing, the rest is a bit of a doddle.
erinja (Показать профиль) 27 января 2014 г., 16:13:52
sudanglo (Показать профиль) 27 января 2014 г., 16:47:38
The OP is clearly an intelligent young man and explicitly mentions lots of time and dedication
erinja (Показать профиль) 27 января 2014 г., 18:13:12
sudanglo:Really, Erinja? Would you like to give us an example of a difficult C level question.I took the C level exam when I had already been speaking Esperanto well for 10 years. There were cases where I had some doubt about the correct answer. It requires a good knowledge of vocabulary that isn't necessarily common in everyday speech. It requires an extreme attention to detail and a very good knowledge of the ins and outs of Esperanto grammar. Finding and correcting errors in sentences is not easy, particularly since some of the sentences are not wrong at all (so you need to recognize this and leave them alone). You need a deep knowledge of "Well, that's a rare choice but technically correct" to decide to leave a sentence completely alone, even when it says something that you know for a fact isn't the usual way that we say something.
The OP is clearly an intelligent young man and explicitly mentions lots of time and dedication
Esperanto is easier than other languages but I don't think we do anyone any favors by overestimating how far you can progress, how fast. I would rather not set unrealistic goals of passing a very difficult exam in six months. You can be extremely intelligent and extremely motivated and still not manage to pass that exam in 6 months, and I would hate to think that someone would feel that they had somehow failed at their studies for not reaching this arbitrary goal post. Just learning vocabulary takes some time (and there is indeed a vocabulary portion on the C exam, as well).