Messaggi: 34
Lingua: English
sudanglo (Mostra il profilo) 01 marzo 2014 12:23:42
The one example that I see is that most people here who use Esperanto don't use compound verbs (where esti is an auxiliary verb, e.g. mi estis irinta [I had been] vs. simply mi iris [I went])The mark of a spertulo is his judicious use of the compound forms - knowing when to use them and when to prefer the simple form.
tommjames (Mostra il profilo) 02 marzo 2014 10:56:31
sudanglo:The mark of a spertulo is his judicious use of the compound forms - knowing when to use them and when to prefer the simple form.True. Although it would be better to say judicious non-use, since most real spertuloj rarely use the complex verbs - they know from experience that they are rarely needed, and that it is good style to avoid useless precision.
erinja (Mostra il profilo) 02 marzo 2014 13:21:17
robbkvasnak:The point that I was trying to make is that the community would have to LIVE BY USING ESPERANTO as the MAIN LANGUAGE of communication for everyday things - not internet conversations - talking about really, really everyday things like between two peopleI've been in the situation you describe. It wasn't a problem, Esperanto as a language handled it all easily. Esperanto has a relative lack of profane and rude words compared to other languages but in spite of that, I'd say that my time cohabiting in Esperanto was considerably more rude and profane that my home life growing up in English.
orthohawk (Mostra il profilo) 02 marzo 2014 15:06:21
robbkvasnak: - gritty four-letter life,.......sorry if the language is jarring or filthy but I don't know how to put it more franklyGoodness! All this fallderooll worrying about the lack of vulgarities in so-called "demotic" esperanto as if that's what it takes to be rude (apparently one of the main qualifications to take our language out of the "elitists'" hands) when apparently all one has to do is address others with "ci" and Voila! Who needs cuss words to get offended??
(Yes, to whom it may concern, I'm still harping! Deal with it.)
BlackOtaku (Mostra il profilo) 15 marzo 2014 05:22:49
orthohawk:(Yes, to whom it may concern, I'm still harping! Deal with it.)I come back here after so many months and read this. You made my night!
I would agree this discussion is pretty much just academic until there would become a large enough and regular enough group of speakers to observe such behavior. However, moreso than that, I personally suspect some bit of "illiteracy" would be necessary; people who have managed to grasp speaking Esperanto
[before learning to/more often than they would] actually read or write it. Just in my layman's study of language, it would seem that when a language is spoken more often than is written/read among a population, that's when variations start to occur.
sudanglo (Mostra il profilo) 15 marzo 2014 09:19:31
It tell us in which fields Esperanto is suitable (eg diplomacy, technical or scientific communication, contracts, more generally formal communication) and in which fields it is not suitable (eg subtitling or dubbing TV crime drama, vulgar speech, jocular register shifts).
We should not make it part of our propaganda that Esperanto is suitable for any purpose which human language is put to. This claim isn't plausible to the man in the street, discredits the language, makes the the Esperantists seem fantasists.
bartlett22183 (Mostra il profilo) 15 marzo 2014 17:56:00
sudanglo:We should not make it part of our propaganda that Esperanto is suitable for any purpose which human language is put to. This claim isn't plausible to the man in the street, discredits the language, makes the the Esperantists seem fantasists.This assertion puzzles me. I have read the claim that you disparage, and it seems plausible to me. So far E-o has seemed adequate for everything I have read on any subject to date in my own experience. I am not sure why the rider on the Clapham omnibus would think otherwise.
RiotNrrd (Mostra il profilo) 15 marzo 2014 21:06:32
sudanglo (Mostra il profilo) 16 marzo 2014 13:14:32
It is not an area with depends much on current actual usage. Our extant specialist dictionaries are largely not based on actual usage, but use the methods referred to above
Also a glossary could be appended to the scientific paper, with translations of any term new to Esperanto in several major languages.
It is not an area in which the man in the street would suppose there to be great difficulty in the use of Esperanto.
But rendering (validly) the foul-mouthed language of a character in the subtitling or dubbing of a film, does depend on very much on actual usage. And the man in the street can reasonably surmise that there are no Esperanto prostitutes, bank-robbers, drug-addicts, low-lifes etc.
orthohawk (Mostra il profilo) 16 marzo 2014 14:58:38
sudanglo:Oh, I dunno. I've seen Esperanto glosses of every single English "blue word" there is, so it seems they do exist. Maybe it's a question of Esperantists (as a group) being so genteel that such language is not actually used but very rarely?
But rendering (validly) the foul-mouthed language of a character in the subtitling or dubbing of a film, does depend on very much on actual usage. And the man in the street can reasonably surmise that there are no Esperanto prostitutes, bank-robbers, drug-addicts, low-lifes etc.