Tin nhắn: 21
Nội dung: English
kaŝperanto (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 15:38:21 Ngày 04 tháng 4 năm 2014
Duko:I see the usage of "so" with the meaning "very, incredibly", as an incomplete statement, where a following hyperbole has been omitted but is implied.That makes sense, but I feel that in Esperanto you should not rely on implied statements which are not consistent (as in I can use whatever hyperbole I want).
I am so hungry! [that I could eat a whole sheep]
I am so tired! [that I could fall asleep right here right now]
I've seen it done in languages other than English too. I would accept this usage in EO, like in the example:
Mi estas tiel malsata! [ke mi povus mangxi tutan sxafon]
However, I have no idea if the meaning would be clear for a let's say Chinese native speaker.
sudanglo (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 21:10:09 Ngày 04 tháng 4 năm 2014
I see the usage of "so" with the meaning "very, incredibly", as an incomplete statement,You are so right! You are so right, that ...?
Stop being so silly! Stop being so silly, that ...?
I didn't realise that she was so tall. I didn't realise that she was so tall, that ...?
Duko (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 09:23:59 Ngày 07 tháng 4 năm 2014
I'm gonna give you the first counter example, but the last two are forced.After eating a whole sheep (OK, a large pizza), I might say to you: I didn't realize that I was so hungry.
There is no hyperbole to follow. I know how hungry I was, you know that too.
Same about the tall woman: I didn't realize she was so tall / I dind't realize she was seven feet tall.
But you are so right about the first one. Maybe a hyperbole was how this usage of "so" started, and then it took a life of its own?
leporinjo (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 11:53:23 Ngày 15 tháng 4 năm 2014
nornen (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 22:01:33 Ngày 15 tháng 4 năm 2014
leporinjo:The way I interpret it, "malsati" is an intransitive word meaning "to be hungry." "hungri" is a transitive word meaning "to be hungry for."In the Nova Testamento you can find "Feliĉaj estas tiuj, kiuj malsatas kaj soifas justecon, ĉar ili satiĝos." where "malsati" and "soifi" seem to be transitive.
richardhall (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 22:19:07 Ngày 15 tháng 4 năm 2014
nornen:In the Nova Testamento you can find "Feliĉaj estas tiuj, kiuj malsatas kaj soifas justecon, ĉar ili satiĝos." where "malsati" and "soifi" seem to be transitive.Are those verbs being used transitively here, or is this a case of the accusative replacing a preposition?
tommjames (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 08:13:03 Ngày 16 tháng 4 năm 2014
If you wanted to use an object you could say "malsati je" (prepositional object) or "avidi" (direct object). "Hungri" isn't really an Esperanto word.
sudanglo (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 10:20:44 Ngày 16 tháng 4 năm 2014
"Hungri" isn't really an Esperanto wordYes, it is straining it a bit to make a verb out of the grio de la Hunoj. You wouldn't say franc-fromaĝi, for example.
richardhall (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 07:52:09 Ngày 17 tháng 4 năm 2014
tommjames:"Malsati" isn't the verb being used transitively there, but "soifi".You're suggesting the sentence means Feliĉaj estas tiuj, kiuj malsatas. Feliĉaj estas tiuj, kiuj soifas justecon, ĉar ili satiĝos.?
If that is what the Esperanto means, it's a poor translation of the original sentence, which clearly means "Blessed are those who [hunger and thirst] for justice". Doesn't justecon refer back to both malsati and soifi?
tommjames (Xem thông tin cá nhân) 08:15:06 Ngày 17 tháng 4 năm 2014
richardhall:If that is what the Esperanto means, it's a poor translation of the original sentence, which clearly means "Blessed are those who [hunger and thirst] for justice". Doesn't justecon refer back to both malsati and soifi?Hmm you're right I take it back then. Not being a big Bible reader I wasn't aware of the original.
In any case using "malsati" with a direct object (or if you prefer, use of the accusative replacing a preposition) is very unusual, so IMO that usage should be avoided in general.