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Translation Challenge

від sudanglo, 4 травня 2014 р.

Повідомлення: 10

Мова: English

sudanglo (Переглянути профіль) 4 травня 2014 р. 11:26:49

The United States has experienced five episodes of very high rates of inflation. Each one has resulted from the issue of fiat money. During the first four periods, the fiat money that caused the inflation was created to finance a major war. When those wars ended, government spending was curtailed, sound money was restored, and the inflation abated.

The double digit inflation of the 1970's was different. It followed the heavy government deficit spending of the 1960's, which had forced the abandonment of gold backing for the dollar in 1968 and resulted in the breakdown of the Bretton Woods system in 1971.

sudanglo (Переглянути профіль) 5 травня 2014 р. 11:19:47

If it helps things along - fiat money is money that is not backed by, or convertible into, precious metal (gold or silver).

It is not exactly equivalent to paper money. Dollars in paper form were at one time convertible to gold, but no longer.

It is money that is decreed to be money (by the government).

One could use fiat-mono en Esperanto. Or dekret-mono, or possibly fido-mono (its value is just supported by trust). Instead of mono you could use valuto.

Ne-konvertebla mono might not do as I believe that there have been currencies (eg the ruble) that could not be (legally) exchanged by citizens for other currencies but were fiat money.

A rule 15 solution might be fiducia mono.

Oijos (Переглянути профіль) 5 травня 2014 р. 12:22:07

sudanglo:A rule 15 solution might be fiducia mono.
Whence that comes?

nornen (Переглянути профіль) 5 травня 2014 р. 15:29:47

sudanglo:A rule 15 solution might be fiducia mono.
Why "fiducia"? Is this the same as "fida"?

"Fiat" comes from "fio" (= "I am done", passive of "facio" = "I do" ) and not from "fido" (= "I trust" ).

Rikat (Переглянути профіль) 5 травня 2014 р. 15:44:31

nornen:
sudanglo:A rule 15 solution might be fiducia mono.
Why "fiducia"? Is this the same as "fida"?

"Fiat" comes from "fio" (= "I am done", passive of "facio" = "I do" ) and not from "fido" (= "I trust" ).
I thought fiat came from "fiat lux," the Latin version of God commanding Light into existence by saying "let there be light!"

nornen (Переглянути профіль) 5 травня 2014 р. 15:48:36

Rikat:
nornen:
sudanglo:A rule 15 solution might be fiducia mono.
Why "fiducia"? Is this the same as "fida"?

"Fiat" comes from "fio" (= "I am done", passive of "facio" = "I do" ) and not from "fido" (= "I trust" ).
I thought fiat came from "fiat lux," the Latin version of God commanding Light into existence by saying "let there be light!"
Exactly. "Fiat lux" means literally "May light be done" (="May light happen" = "Let there be light" ) and not "May light trust" (which would be "Fidat lux" ).

"dixitque Deus fiat lux et facta est lux" = "said-and God may-be-done light and was-done light"
Both "fiat" and "facta est" are forms of "fio" (and thus ultimately forms of "facio" ).

My question was about the relation between "fiat" and Esperanto "fid/".

noelekim (Переглянути профіль) 6 травня 2014 р. 04:08:35

How's this?

sudanglo:The United States has experienced five episodes of very high rates of inflation. Each one has resulted from the issue of fiat money. During the first four periods, the fiat money that caused the inflation was created to finance a major war. When those wars ended, government spending was curtailed, sound money was restored, and the inflation abated.
Usono jam spertis kvin epizodojn de tre altaj indicoj de inflacio. Ĉiu rezultis el la problemo de fiduciara mono. Dum la unua kvar periodoj, la fiduciara mono, kiu kaŭzis la inflacion, estis kreita por financi grandan militon. Post kiam tiuj militoj finiĝis, ŝtataj elspezoj estis restriktitaj, fidinda mono estis restarigita, kaj la inflacio malpliiĝis.

sudanglo:The double digit inflation of the 1970's was different. It followed the heavy government deficit spending of the 1960's, which had forced the abandonment of gold backing for the dollar in 1968 and resulted in the breakdown of the Bretton Woods system in 1971.
La ducifera inflacio de la 1970-aj jaroj estis malsama. Ĝi sekvis la grandan deficitan elspezadon fare de la registaro en la 1960-aj jaroj, kiu devigis la forlason de subteno per oro por la dolaro en 1968 kaj sekvigis la disfalon de la sistemo de Bretton Woods en 1971.

sudanglo (Переглянути профіль) 6 травня 2014 р. 08:36:59

As far as I can work out English has two ways of saying the same thing.

Fiat money (from latin; let it be done) so money declared by government to be legal tender and not convertible into specie

Fiduciary money (from latin fidere to trust) an issue of bank notes not backed by gold.

The multi-lingual Kluwer business dictionary from the 1970's gives the Esperanto as Fidata mono - the Portuguese, Spanish, French, Italian and Dutch translations all use a word like fiduciara (which Noelekim has used in his translation).

For some languages there is also a translation as paper money. But in ordinary language paper money is contrasted with coins and I'm pretty sure that there were banknotes even when the money was backed by gold. So papermono may or may not be fiduciara.

Another problem in the text is 'issue'. I am not sure if eldono is satisfactory.

Edit: fiduciara could be useful in other contexts eg 'fiduciary duty'

sudanglo (Переглянути профіль) 6 травня 2014 р. 09:11:21

I used Kukolo to search the net for fiduciara and discovered a definition in Súper Glosaro which nicely relates to fiduciary duty. (I have corrected, at least in part, the language errors in the definition, of which there were many - perhaps because of machine translation)

Fiduciaria: La termino 'fiduciaria' priskribas la fidelan rilaton ŝuldatan de advokato al kliento aŭ por makleristo (kaj vendisto) al la ĉefa partio. La fiduciaria ŝuldas kompletan lojalecon al la kliento. Inter la obligacioj kiujn la fiduciaria ŝuldas al sia ĉefo estas la devoj de lojaleco, obeemo kaj plena malkaŝo, kaj la devo uzi lerteco, zorgo kaj diligenteco, kaj la devo de kontigo por ĉiuj monoj.

noelekim (Переглянути профіль) 7 травня 2014 р. 04:20:02

sudanglo:
Another problem in the text is 'issue'. I am not sure if eldono is satisfactory.
Mia fuŝo! I'm so used to seeing "the issue of" in the sense of "la problemo de", "la demando pri", I completely overlooked its meaning in the context of the issuing of currency.

"Each one has resulted from the issue of fiat money" should be "Ĉiu rezultis el la emisio de fiduciara mono".

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