Съобщения: 10
Език: English
Altulo (Покажи профила) 22 май 2014, 21:39:09
Justice must be tempered with mercy; otherwise, it is nothing more than revenge.
Justeco devu hardi kun kompatemo; alie, gxi estas neniu plu ol vengxo.
Thoughts?
nornen (Покажи профила) 22 май 2014, 22:04:47
It says:
1 tem·per transitive verb ˈtem-pərBut what does it mean in this quote? Justice must be hardened (malmoligi) or must be made less severe (malseverigi)?
: to make (something) less severe or extreme
: to cause (something, such as steel or glass) to become hard or strong by heating it and cooling it
nornen (Покажи профила) 22 май 2014, 22:09:03
La justico estu malseverigata per la kompatemo; alie ĝi estas nenio krom venĝo.
Oni malseverigu la justicon per la kompatemo; alie ĝi estas nenio krom venĝo.
Oni malseverigu la justicon per la kompatemo; alie ĝi estas nur venĝo.
sparksbet (Покажи профила) 22 май 2014, 22:13:29
While some of my decisions (like changing the sentence from passive voice to active voice with the subject "oni," or omitting the pronoun "ĝi") are personal preference, you've make a few objective mistakes in your translation. Here are those that I have noticed:
- I've never seen "devu" before. I'm not very familiar with the volitional in everyday Esperanto use, but to me, putting the verb for "should" into the volitional seems redundant. It's like saying justice "must should" temper, imho.
- "Hardi" is a transitive verb. The subject of the sentence is the one doing the tempering, while the object is the one tempered. In your translation, justice is tempering something which you don't name, whereas the original quote says that justice is what needs to be tempered. In my translation, I added a subject. A more literal translation would read "justeco devas esti hardita/hardata." Edit: "Hardi" is actually the wrong verb. As pointed out by nornen above, it means to literally temper something - to make something harder. The English word can also mean "to make less severe," and that's the meaning in this quote. "Malseverigi" is a better fit.
- You use the wrong preposition for "with." "Kun" is the preposition for "along with." It makes it sound like justice and compassion are tempering something together. The English "with" in this sentence means "by means of," so you would use "per."
- I think "plu" is the wrong word for more in this situation. The difference between "pli" and "plu" is something I don't have down yet, but I'm pretty sure "plu" is an adverb, closer to English's "further." I did away with that whole phrase and replaced it with the word "nur," which means "merely." More literally, I think "ĝi estas nenio pli ol venĝo" is closer to what the original phrase means.
Edit: Nornen's post made me realize that the literal meaning of "hardi" isn't the same as the use of the word "temper" here! Changed my response to reflect that.
Altulo (Покажи профила) 22 май 2014, 22:16:06
Altulo (Покажи профила) 22 май 2014, 22:28:00
Whoever loves, let him flourish.
Let him perish who knows not love.
Let him perish twice whoever forbids love.
Kiu ajn amas, lin permesu flori.
Lin permesu perei, kiu ne scias amon.
Lin permesu perei dufoje, kiu malpermesu amon.
nornen (Покажи профила) 22 май 2014, 22:41:29
Altulo:Here's another one:I would say:
Whoever loves, let him flourish.
Let him perish who knows not love.
Let him perish twice whoever forbids love.
Kiu ajn amas, lin permesu flori.
Lin permesu perei, kiu ne scias amon.
Lin permesu perei dufoje, kiu malpermesu amon.
Kiu amas, floru.
Pereu, kiu ne konas la amon.
Pereu duoble, kiu malpermesas la amon.
Altulo (Покажи профила) 22 май 2014, 22:48:59
morfran (Покажи профила) 22 май 2014, 22:56:48
Altulo:Here's another one:The usual formula I’ve seen for this sort of thing is kiu x-as, tiu y-as.
Whoever loves, let him flourish.
Let him perish who knows not love.
Let him perish twice whoever forbids love.
Kiu ajn amas, lin permesu flori.
Lin permesu perei, kiu ne scias amon.
Lin permesu perei dufoje, kiu malpermesu amon.
Bemused (Покажи профила) 23 май 2014, 10:46:52
nornen:English is not my language, so I just looked up "temper" in the Merriam-Webster dictionary.Consider a set of weighing scales, on one side is revenge (punishment of the offender), on the other side is mercy (compassion toward the offender), justice is the balance point between these.
It says:1 tem·per transitive verb ˈtem-pərBut what does it mean in this quote? Justice must be hardened (malmoligi) or must be made less severe (malseverigi)?
: to make (something) less severe or extreme
: to cause (something, such as steel or glass) to become hard or strong by heating it and cooling it
So in this context, justice is tempered (made less severe) by mercy.