johmue:
I am totally with you there. But orthohawk phrased it, as if polyamorists by themselfs are crackpots to him.

DO.NOT. put words in my mouth!!

orthohawk:

johmue:
I am totally with you there. But orthohawk phrased it, as if polyamorists by themselfs are crackpots to him.

DO.NOT. put words in my mouth!!

So you don't think polyamorists are crackpots? It's difficult to tell.

erinja:I guess it also depends on what you mean about being vocal about something. Johmue, we've met at a number of Esperanto events and I wasn't aware you were polyamorous, yet you self-identify as "vocal" about it.

I sm vocal about it in the sense that I am covering it in (one of) my songs: Profunde en mia kor'

johmue:

orthohawk:

johmue:

orthohawk:Oh, great! Let's alienate even MORE of the mainstream population by inviting even MORE crackpots and stranguloj into Esperantujo!

So polyamorous people are crackpots to you?

MY opinion isn't what the problem is. it's the opinion of mainstreamists, who most definitely consider poly's to be crackpots and stranguloj.......

I actually would like this kind of close minded people to stay away from Esperantujo. So I am fine with inviting polys, LGBTs and other of mainstream people to Esperantujo. On the one hand it makes the whole movement more diverse and more interesting. If it keeps close minded people, who consider people of different lifestyles crackpots, out of the movement, no problem to me.

What one finds "open-minded" is what one can call "crackpot." For example, if your group was promoting Nazi ideals, or marrying and mating with their dogs and cats, would you consider theirs "crackpot" ideas, or would you welcome their booths with tolerance and pride just because they speak Esperanto?

There is a fine line between saying that you're "open-minded" and judging others opposingly. I advise you not cross it in life.

I think you go to different kinds of Esperanto events than I do, Johannes! I haven't been to JES or the old IS, or to IJK, and I've never seen a polyamory discussion group at any Esperanto event (let alone thinking that this is already passe). Also, I usually interpret the word "vocal" to mean not just open about something but unusually active in telling people about it. I guess I normally interpret that to mean that if the polyamorists were the only ones with a sticker on their badge, it seems vocal to me, but if there are many stickers people can put on their badges (music, dancing, whatever), then having one for polyamory as well doesn't seem especially interesting (or especially vocal). I say this even though I am not actually very interested the exact interpretation of vocal; my main point is that I don't feel that people feel pressured to be polyamorous/gay/Christian/fans of cats just because there are such people in the Esperanto community who maybe have a discussion group or a society revolving around that, and indicate it on their badge. I'm not pleased with this comparison with Nazi ideas or bestiality. I think most Esperanto speakers, at least publicly, have a pretty mature live-and-let-live attitude when it comes to what happens between consenting adults and fits with the general "internal idea" of Esperanto. That would exclude racism/sexism/discrimination and preclude a hate group from being welcome at an Esperanto event. I think that it is going overboard to suggest that because the Esperanto community is accepting of relationships between consenting adults, that it would also be ok with anything under the sun (particularly involving animal cruelty), and it seems dishonest to suggest that this would be the case.

At any rate I fully expect anyone attending an Esperanto convention to be respectful of those who make different life decisions, and this has been my general experience. Online forums are generally less respectful about these things than real life; I think it's easier to tell a faceless person online "My religion says you're going to hell" than a real person standing in front of you, who you've perhaps just had a nice conversation with on another topic).

erinja:I'm not pleased with this comparison with Nazi ideas or bestiality. I think most Esperanto speakers, at least publicly, have a pretty mature live-and-let-live attitude when it comes to what happens between consenting adults and fits with the general "internal idea" of Esperanto. That would exclude racism/sexism/discrimination and preclude a hate group from being welcome at an Esperanto event. I think that it is going overboard to suggest that because the Esperanto community is accepting of relationships between consenting adults, that it would also be ok with anything under the sun (particularly involving animal cruelty), and it seems dishonest to suggest that this would be the case.

That is my point to the OP. There is a line between what one group can find "normal" and what another believes. But since the majority of the world does not support polyamorous relationships (for this discussion), that doesn't mean that they are "close minded" and "discriminatory," per se, and should be uninvited from an event. There can be disagreements but that doesn't mean people should be silenced or—ironically—discriminated against.

It's a big world, and there are a lot of different opinions. Diversity doesn't mean we all act the same.

bpbatch:But since the majority of the world does not support polyamorous relationships (for this discussion), that doesn't mean that they are "close minded" and "discriminatory," per se, and should be uninvited from an event.

I don't want to uninvite anybody. It's just that I am not sad, if the close minded ones choose to stay away. Therefore welcome to off mainstream people LGBTs, polys, religious minorities, whatever, as long as you don't try to somehow force your point of view on others.

Esperantujo should be an open society, where everybody can follow one's chosen lifestyle and also discuss with others about their's. It should IMO however not be understood as some kind of fairground, where everybody can advertise ones chosen lifestyle or religion or whatever.

People, who have problems with other lifestyles, religious or political points of view than their own, are not uninvited. However I don't mind them to stay away.

BTW. What do you mean by "does not support polyamorous relationships"?

@ bpbatch: Sorry, but that was not cool. You just don't equate tolerance towards an alternative lifestyle that doesn't hurt anyone, with tolerance towards clear evils like nazism and bestiality. It's inconsiderate and it builds a dishonest argument.

Duko:clear evils like nazism and bestiality

Those are clear evils in Esperantujo? I don't agree. Bestiality was pretty common and accepted in Finnish society as far as I know until recently (maybe because of foreign influence). And how some political movement is clear evil, which should not be tolerated? My clear evil are the Finnish Green Parties, which should not be tolerated. But someone else would say, that that is not "clear evil", even though they want to increase suffering in Africa by sending our resources there so that the population explosion can continue (for some time) and the resultant suffering in the collapse will be much bigger.

As for using multiamory to advertise Esperanto, are all those multiamorists in Esperantujo males like the case is usually?

Oijos:As for using multiamory to advertise Esperanto, are all those multiamorists in Esperantujo males like the case is usually?

Well, my girlfriends are female ...

Neither in Esperantujo nor elsewhere the polyamorists are mainly male. The gender ratio is about equal. I'd have to count them to know whether it's more men or more women.

Just to avoid one misconception about polyamory. If you know about a woman that she's polyamorous, that does not mean that she's likely to fuck you. If you are looking for quick hookups, you'll probably be disappointed being among polyamorists. You might find quick hookups in Esperantujo, you might find them among polyamorists you might find them among Esperanto speaking polyamorists, but not more likely than anywhere else. To make that clear again: Polyamory is not about sex. Repeat: Polyamory is not about sex.