Will someone please proof-read my post in Esperanto?
fra Foreigner,2014 7 8
Meldinger: 10
Språk: English
Foreigner (Å vise profilen) 2014 7 8 23:36:20
============
Kio estas via lingvo ŝatata? Se via lingvo denaska estas via lingvo ŝatata, diru via lingvo dua ŝatata, kaj se esperanto estas via lingvo ŝatata, diru via lingvo dua ŝatata. Fine, se via lingvo denaska kaj esperanto estas via lingvoj unua kaj dua ŝatata, diru via lingvo tria ŝatata.
Mi ne studis multajn lingvojn, sed mi studis iom. Mi studis la hispanan, la germanan, kaj iom hungaran. Ĉar ni ĉiu ŝatas esperanton, mi diras ke mia lingvo ŝatata estas germana, sed eble unu tago ĝi estos hungara kiam mi lernas pli.
============
One thing I questioned was the use of "Ĉar ni ĉiu..." I wasn't sure if "ni" was needed, but I included it so that no one would read "ĉiu" and think I mean every person in the world. I also wanted to include "ni" because I didn't like the sound of "Because we like esperanto..." and wanted "Because we ALL like esperanto..." I'm not sure if just "Because we like..." has the same feel as "Because we all like..." in Esperanto, so please just tell me what you think and if I sound too Englishy anywhere.
nornen (Å vise profilen) 2014 7 9 00:39:24
Kiu (or kio. kio = what, kiu = which. I personally would use "kiu" as it is a choice between several languages) estas via plej ŝatata lingvo? Se via denaska lingvo estas via plej ŝatata lingvo, nomu vian due plej ŝatatan lingvon, kaj se esperanto estas via plej ŝatata lingvo, nomu vian due plej ŝatatan lingvon. Fine, se via denaska lingvo kaj esperanto estas viaj plej ŝatataj lingvoj, nomu vian trie plej ŝatatan lingvon.
Mi ne studis multajn lingvojn, sed mi studis iom. Mi studis la hispanan, la germanan, kaj iom la hungaran. Ĉar ni ĉiuj ŝatas esperanton, mi diras ke mia plej ŝatata lingvo estas la germana, sed eble unu tagon ĝi estos la hungara kiam mi lernos ĝin pli.
Btw, congrats on your fast progress.
RiotNrrd (Å vise profilen) 2014 7 9 01:31:25
Same as nornen, I would therefore also use kiu. We are identifying one language out of the set of all languages, so it's a which kind of deal.
If I saw some horrible creature shambling down the road stomping on cars and eating mailboxes, I might yell Kio estas tio!?!?*. I'm not picking it out of a set; I'm just waving wildly at it. So, kio.
Other than the few things nornen brought up, I can find nothing to criticize.
I also congratulate you on your rapid progress. Well done!
----------------------------------
* Honestly, though, it'd probably come out in English. And very likely with a doppler effect.
Foreigner (Å vise profilen) 2014 7 9 01:53:43
1) Why do you say "plej sxatata" for "favorite?" The vortaro gives the translation of "favorite" as "plej sxatata" but the translation of just "sxatata" is "favorite / liked / appreciated."
2) Why did you say "due plej sxatata" instead of "dua plej sxatata? You also said "trie plej sxatata lingvo" over "... tria..."
3) Why did you say "... sed eble unu tagon gxi estos la hungara...?" What makes "tago" the direct object of this sentence?
4) Why are languages preceded by "la?" You and I both said, (and I, only because I have seen others do so), "Mi studis hispanan kaj la germanan kaj iom la hungaran." I read that as "I have studied the Spanish, the German, and some the Hungarian," ans also, when talking about languages in this manner, should I use languages as adjectives (-a) over nouns (-o)? (Mi studis la germanan / Mi studis la germanon."
nornen (Å vise profilen) 2014 7 9 02:23:27
"ŝatata" is the present participle passive of the verb "ŝati" = "to like". So a "lingvo ŝatata" is a "language, which is being liked". I can have many languages, which are being liked by me, but only one, which I like most: "mia plej ŝatata lingvo" = "the language, which is being liked most by me" = "the language I like most" = "my favourite language".
Ad 2)
I understand that "due" and "trie" relate (refer) to "ŝatata". Everything that referes to an a-word (adjective) uses the e-ending (adverb). I know that in English you say "second best" and not "*secondly best", but I don't think this matters much. Nevertheless, maybe some of the "spertuloj" of the English forum might want to comment on this, as I am not sure about this whole issue.
Ad 3)
The accusative does not only mark the direct object of a verbal phrase, but also adverbials of time (accusativus temporis). This seems to be a loan from Latin and other languages.
Ad 4)
"angla", "germana", "hungara" and the like are adjectives and hence demonyms or gentilics. When you refer to a language you omit the word "lingvo". So basically "la angla" is "la angla lingvo". This explains also the defined article: "la hungara (lingvo)" = "the Hungarian language".
Mi studis la germanan (lingvon). = I (have) studied German (the German language).
Mi studis la germanon. = I (have) studied the German (person). (a bit senseless)
But: Mi studis la germanon laborantan kun vi, kaj mi devas diri ke mi opinias ke li estas sorĉisto. (This might make sense in a Hogwarts environment.)
nornen (Å vise profilen) 2014 7 9 02:24:50
RiotNrrd:If I saw some horrible creature shambling down the road stomping on cars and eating mailboxes, I might yell Kio estas tio!?!?*.Or it might come out as "Kio estgggrrrĝĝĝ...."
----------------------------------
* Honestly, though, it'd probably come out in English. And very likely with a doppler effect.
sudanglo (Å vise profilen) 2014 7 9 11:37:22
Because we ALL like esperanto...I would be tempted to say ĉar ni ĉiuj ...
sudanglo (Å vise profilen) 2014 7 9 11:52:31
Why did you say "due plej sxatata" instead of "dua plej sxatata? You also said "trie plej sxatata lingvo" over "... tria..."I think your preference for the adjective is sound Foreigner, and this usage is confirmed in the Tekstaro.
la dua plej bona rezulto
la dua plej granda universitato en Pollando
nornen (Å vise profilen) 2014 7 9 17:39:20
sudanglo:Thanks for your post sudanglo, shedding some light on this topic.Why did you say "due plej sxatata" instead of "dua plej sxatata? You also said "trie plej sxatata lingvo" over "... tria..."I think your preference for the adjective is sound Foreigner, and this usage is confirmed in the Tekstaro.
la dua plej bona rezulto
la dua plej granda universitato en Pollando
In the tekstaro I found eight occurrences of "dua plej" versus one occurrences of "due plej". Unfortunately both numbers are well below any statistical threshold.
I think the use of "dua" or "due" depends on how you look at the phrase:
"la dua plej granda universitato" means "of the biggest the second". "dua" referring to "plej granda universitato" (which is nominal, hence -a)
"la due plej vizitata (sc. festivalo)" means "the most visited in second degree". "due" referring to "plej vizitata" (which is adjectival, hence -e)
Hence, I would like to revoke my original opinion, and say: "you can use either "dua" or "due" depending on how you look at it".
zaragorti (Å vise profilen) 2014 7 12 22:35:07
Foreigner:I posted this in the Esperanto section. Will someone please read through it and tell me if it sounds fine, or what they would change? Thank you.My first ever post in Esperanto was completely (helpfully) trashed by a couple of samideanoj! Since then (which is to say, for the past couple of weeks) I've filtered by forum posts through a few stages. I draft what I think I mean to say in my beginner's Esperanto, then I pass it through Google translate into English, which highlights any huge mistakes, finally I pass it through Lingvohelpilo to highlight grammatical and spelling mistakes. I'm finding the process is actually helping me learn to write better.
Having said that, there is no safeguard against turns of phrase which were 'thought' in English. I have quickly found that thinking in English or Spanish is not often helpful in writing Esperanto.