Mesaĝoj: 11
Lingvo: English
Alkanadi (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-01 14:32:14
Clarence666 (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-01 14:46:42
Alkanadi:In your opinion, what is the most common mistake that newbies make? Hopefully, this information will help me avoid it.- trouzo de akuzativo | overuse of the accusative - "mi estas Esperantisto
- forgesado de akuzativo | forgetting the accusative - "mi havas hundon"
- mistraduko de | mistranslation of EN:"there is" kaj | and EN:"there are" - "there is a bug in my code" -> "
http://lernu.net/lernado/gramatiko/demandoj/oe.php
tommjames (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-01 14:49:56
Not using the accusative where they should
Using the accusative where they shouldn't
Lack of case/plural agreement between adjectives and nouns
Not using "al" on verbs that traditionally require it
Using "si" as subject
Using -as or -anta for a gerund
Misuse of correlatives (kiu instead of kio, kia instead of kiel, etc)
Using the accusative after a preposition in an invalid way (eg "mi trinkis multe da teon" )
Using "ĝi" when you should use "tio".
Using an adjective when you should use an adverb
General overuse of participles
Timtim (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-01 20:13:49
- Subite aperis viro
- Mankis tempo
kaŝperanto (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-01 22:01:56
--(Note: I believe some of my examples are from your post in the other thread ;P )--
This includes but is not limited to:
- Using o-words in adjectival ways; Ekz. "race horse" -> "vetkuro cxevalo" (in this unfortunate example "horse race" is another valid interpretation...).
- Using the wrong word when there are multiple meanings for the word. One I saw today was "posteno" being used instead of "afisxo" to describe a forum post. This is more of a problem with one-word translations without actual definitions, and I frequently tell people to use the Eo-Eo definition when they are uncertain. I always try to find a good definition here, on the reta vortaro, or on vortaro.net when I come across a word I don't know.
- Directly translating word-for-word from English, including the usual helper words (like the "tie estas" example Clarence666 pointed out). This is what lets me know for sure that the person's native language is English when I see it. Avoid this by trying to think in Esperanto and knowing the grammatical function of the words you're trying to translate.
- As tommjames pointed out it is not correct to translate gerunds into verbs or participles. This stems from the hairy situation in English where we have gerunds, participles, and even adjectives that all end in -ing. Most native English speakers don't really know the difference, so translating it will be hit-or-miss for sure. The good news is "gerunds" in Esperanto do not share an ending with participles. I say "gerunds" because this word means different things for different languages. The simple answer is to use -ado or the -o form of the verb when you are using it as a "thing". ("Mi tre sxatas kuradon" -> "I love running" vs "Mi vidas kurantan hundon" -> "I saw a running dog" )
- The ever-present misuse of accusative (or lack of use). This just takes time and practice in my experience.
- Incorrect usage of correlatives, particularly -o and -u.
I'm probably forgetting something at the moment, but those stick out the most to me. Some of these are only really obvious on people I assume have not studied a foreign language before. For non-english-speaking newbies I sometimes just have a hard time following what they are saying due to errors I must assume are specific to their native tongue.
The best way to break any of these bad habits is to stay involved on the forums (actually posting with some frequency).
Fenris_kcf (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-02 08:27:54
- Using "ke" as a correlative (instead of "kiu" or "kio" ) due to to equality in many Indoeuropean languages
parawizard (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-02 20:28:53
Fenris_kcf:Can you provide an examples? Could you flesh this out more? Do you mean the difference between the conjunction that and the pronouns which and who?
- Using "ke" as a correlative (instead of "kiu" or "kio" ) due to to equality in many Indoeuropean languages
Mi scias, ke mi ne scias!
Estas la hundo kiu manĝis miajn ŝuojn.
Mi mankas al miaj ŝuoj, kio mia hundo manĝis.
Hound_of_God (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-02 22:49:55
parawizard:Can you provide an examples? Could you flesh this out more? Do you mean the difference between the conjunction that and the pronouns which and who?I think one example might be "It was a man that hit me"
and saying that as "Gxi estis viro ke batis min" instead of "Gxi estis viro kiu batis min."
parawizard (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-03 01:00:03
Hound_of_God:In my opinion it should "It was a man who hit me" in English as well and not using that. It seems to be a gray area historically and I can't really find any definitive rule. Sometimes that is used for the effect, making the person sound less human. In some regions people may take offense to be referred to as "that" instead of who as they feel dehumanized. Though that can be used there, other phrases you could run into problems with using that in place of who. That you can used with restrictive clauses and who can be used with restrictive and non-restrictive.parawizard:Can you provide an examples? Could you flesh this out more? Do you mean the difference between the conjunction that and the pronouns which and who?I think one example might be "It was a man that hit me"
and saying that as "Gxi estis viro ke batis min" instead of "Gxi estis viro kiu batis min."
Restrictive ClauseEither way I would it say it comes down to people just not knowing/remembering about this school of thought. Even if they choose to use that for referring to people in English they will need to remember the ambiguity when translating to other languages. In my opinion I prefer to use the stricter version of who when referring to people unless I am looking for a desired effect.
"All the plant workers who wanted raises went on strike" - Good
"All the plant workers that wanted raises went on strike" - Good
Non-restrictive Clause
"All the plant workers, who wanted raises, went on strike" - Good
"All the plant workers, that wanted raises, went on strike" - Bad
Example take from here
Wiki - Non-Restrictive Clause
Wiki - Restrictive Clause
Now as for French it is stricter as far as that and who, que and qui. There is no ambiguity to be found. You may find some ambiguity in spoken common level french where people pass on the use of the much more complicated pronouns and use que but not qui.
You can find the PMEG table that shows the uses for the different pronouns here: La tabelo
Timtim (Montri la profilon) 2014-aŭgusto-03 22:03:39
parawizard:In my opinion it should "It was a man who hit me" in English as well and not using that. It seems to be a gray area historically and I can't really find any definitive rule.Either works, since the question can be "Who hit you?" (-> "It was the man who ...") or "What hit you?" (-> "It was the man that ...")
Fenris_kcf's contribution is a very good one - it's certainly an error I've seen on many occasions. "La hundo, *ke* loĝas en la apuda domo ..." etc.